1 00:00:04,038 --> 00:00:07,565 Hello and welcome back today's three session. 2 00:00:07,565 --> 00:00:11,332 Today we have Abel Quintero. 3 00:00:11,332 --> 00:00:15,453 He is a UX and UI designer based in Portland, Oregon, 4 00:00:15,453 --> 00:00:19,493 who enjoys creating experiences that people love. 5 00:00:19,493 --> 00:00:23,148 With three years of experience in web graphic design, 6 00:00:23,148 --> 00:00:28,083 content management, and both qualitative and quantitative research. 7 00:00:28,083 --> 00:00:32,181 Abel has strong foundations and human-centered design and 8 00:00:32,181 --> 00:00:33,796 behavioral sciences. 9 00:00:33,796 --> 00:00:38,704 He has worked with collaborative cross functional teams and education, 10 00:00:38,704 --> 00:00:41,561 non for profit and e-commerce settings. 11 00:00:41,561 --> 00:00:44,941 Please welcome Abel Quintero. 12 00:00:44,941 --> 00:00:46,915 >> Hello, everyone. 13 00:00:46,915 --> 00:00:49,997 Thank you for the intro. 14 00:00:49,997 --> 00:00:54,829 As mentioned, my name is Abel Quintero, 15 00:00:54,829 --> 00:00:59,117 and I'm very happy to be here today. 16 00:00:59,117 --> 00:01:04,232 And yes, thank you to Treehouse for hosting this amazing event. 17 00:01:04,232 --> 00:01:08,421 I'm gonna go ahead and get started and share my screen. 18 00:01:08,421 --> 00:01:12,799 So before I get started with the main presentation, 19 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:16,589 I wanted to do a quick land acknowledgement. 20 00:01:16,589 --> 00:01:20,552 As mentioned, I am based in Portland and 21 00:01:20,552 --> 00:01:25,686 sit on the traditional village sites of Multnomah, 22 00:01:25,686 --> 00:01:29,302 Kathlamet, Clackamas, Chinook, 23 00:01:29,302 --> 00:01:34,568 Tualatin Kalapuya, Molalla and many other tribes. 24 00:01:39,427 --> 00:01:42,719 A little bit about my background. 25 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:47,109 I am a frontend engineer at Ivy.ai and 26 00:01:47,109 --> 00:01:51,639 I'm also leadership teams Out Tech and 27 00:01:51,639 --> 00:01:58,091 Techqueria both of which are amazing organizations for 28 00:01:58,091 --> 00:02:05,248 the LGBTQ as well as Latinx communities in the tech industry. 29 00:02:05,248 --> 00:02:10,252 And I myself identify as Queer, Asian, Latinx. 30 00:02:15,048 --> 00:02:22,821 All right, so before I dive into any section I want to give a few definitions. 31 00:02:22,821 --> 00:02:27,507 And these are coming from Creative Reaction Lab. 32 00:02:27,507 --> 00:02:32,180 And so these are terms that we often see from around in 33 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:36,439 the industry but sometimes they get confused. 34 00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:39,252 So I thought it was important to define them. 35 00:02:39,252 --> 00:02:45,305 So diversity is when there is a variety of characteristics within a group, 36 00:02:45,305 --> 00:02:49,737 such as a neighborhood, school, community or city. 37 00:02:49,737 --> 00:02:51,711 A variety of identifiers and 38 00:02:51,711 --> 00:02:56,816 characteristics that in the case of people reflects our individuality, 39 00:02:56,816 --> 00:03:01,588 often limited and largely confined to visible aspects such as race, 40 00:03:01,588 --> 00:03:06,194 age or gender, rather than less visible aspects such as ability, 41 00:03:06,194 --> 00:03:09,351 status, nationality or mental well being. 42 00:03:09,351 --> 00:03:14,350 And inclusion is the leveraging of difference by integrating 43 00:03:14,350 --> 00:03:19,349 diverse perspectives and creating a better outcome for all. 44 00:03:19,349 --> 00:03:24,655 Inclusion is an invitation that not only accepts differences but 45 00:03:24,655 --> 00:03:27,267 celebrates and embodies them. 46 00:03:27,267 --> 00:03:31,226 An important note is that diversity and inclusion are not interchangeable. 47 00:03:31,226 --> 00:03:34,946 There can be diversity without inclusion and vice versa. 48 00:03:34,946 --> 00:03:40,567 And finally, equity revolves around systemic outcomes and exists 49 00:03:40,567 --> 00:03:47,481 when outcomes are no longer predicted by any aspect of an individual's identity. 50 00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:53,072 So what is intersectionality? 51 00:03:53,072 --> 00:03:57,938 It is a lens from critical race theory started by 52 00:03:57,938 --> 00:04:01,843 Kimberle Crenshaw in the late 80s. 53 00:04:01,843 --> 00:04:06,917 And so it's a prism for seeing the way in which various forms 54 00:04:06,917 --> 00:04:12,617 of inequality often operate together and exacerbate each other. 55 00:04:12,617 --> 00:04:20,950 We tend to talk about race inequality as separate from inequality based on gender, 56 00:04:20,950 --> 00:04:25,364 class, sexuality, or immigrant status. 57 00:04:25,364 --> 00:04:29,678 And what's often missing is how some people are subject to all of these and 58 00:04:29,678 --> 00:04:32,471 the experience is just not the sum of its parts. 59 00:04:32,471 --> 00:04:36,803 And that's a direct quote from Kimberle Crenshaw. 60 00:04:36,803 --> 00:04:42,605 And so intersectionality as a whole encompasses gender, sexuality, 61 00:04:42,605 --> 00:04:47,634 race, class, religion, ability, physical appearance, 62 00:04:47,634 --> 00:04:52,099 height, and other social and political identities. 63 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:56,381 So why is this important? 64 00:04:56,381 --> 00:05:01,404 I've pulled a couple of statistics that 65 00:05:01,404 --> 00:05:08,504 are showing why it's an important lens to look through. 66 00:05:08,504 --> 00:05:13,098 So the first stat is according to a 2013 US transgender 67 00:05:13,098 --> 00:05:18,181 survey by activists group National Center for Trans Equality. 68 00:05:18,181 --> 00:05:24,858 38% of black trans people surveyed reported living in poverty compared 69 00:05:24,858 --> 00:05:30,690 just 12% of US population and 29% of trans people overall. 70 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:35,529 The respondents also reported greater housing instability with 71 00:05:35,529 --> 00:05:40,369 51% of black trans woman reporting that they have experienced 72 00:05:40,369 --> 00:05:43,551 homelessness at some point in their life. 73 00:05:43,551 --> 00:05:49,470 And so this shows a clear gap between trans black 74 00:05:49,470 --> 00:05:54,651 folks as compared to the trans population 75 00:05:54,651 --> 00:05:59,695 overall and the US population overall. 76 00:05:59,695 --> 00:06:06,444 So here there's a clear intersection between race and 77 00:06:06,444 --> 00:06:12,617 gender identity and then socioeconomic status. 78 00:06:12,617 --> 00:06:15,150 And then another study found. 79 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:19,537 This one is more common that you may have heard of, 80 00:06:19,537 --> 00:06:26,535 is that Latinx women are paid 54 cents for every dollar earned by white males, 81 00:06:26,535 --> 00:06:32,506 black women are paid 61 cents and white women are paid 78 cents. 82 00:06:32,506 --> 00:06:39,319 And so this shows that not only is there a pay gap between male and 83 00:06:39,319 --> 00:06:45,892 female workers, but it is a larger gap based on race as well. 84 00:06:45,892 --> 00:06:51,234 And so, here we have an intersection of race and 85 00:06:51,234 --> 00:06:57,391 gender are working together to create this inequity. 86 00:06:59,562 --> 00:07:05,143 So how can we take action as a tech industry 87 00:07:05,143 --> 00:07:09,613 to alleviate these inequities? 88 00:07:09,613 --> 00:07:15,032 One way is to organize, so you can plan events through ERG's 89 00:07:15,032 --> 00:07:20,571 within your company or other organizations like Out in Tech. 90 00:07:20,571 --> 00:07:25,008 And explore topics through an intersectional lens. 91 00:07:25,008 --> 00:07:29,004 So for example, last year with Out in Tech, 92 00:07:29,004 --> 00:07:33,216 I organized an event called Equity by Design, 93 00:07:33,216 --> 00:07:39,804 where we had three queer, black indigenous people of color panelists, 94 00:07:39,804 --> 00:07:44,023 discussing equity in their design practice. 95 00:07:44,023 --> 00:07:52,744 So there's one example of the types of events that you can organize. 96 00:07:52,744 --> 00:07:57,538 And this really helps engage folks within 97 00:07:57,538 --> 00:08:02,746 the tech industry in these discussions, and 98 00:08:02,746 --> 00:08:08,639 it's an important step towards equities is having 99 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:15,235 these types of events that use the intersectional lens. 100 00:08:15,235 --> 00:08:21,404 And then another action we could take is educating and advocating. 101 00:08:21,404 --> 00:08:26,356 So this can mean holding equity and implicit bias trainings for 102 00:08:26,356 --> 00:08:31,123 employees as well as making sure there are stakeholders from 103 00:08:31,123 --> 00:08:34,868 different backgrounds on your project teams. 104 00:08:34,868 --> 00:08:40,695 And then this is coming from the Creative Reaction Lab again, 105 00:08:40,695 --> 00:08:46,522 and so you can ask questions like who is benefiting socially, 106 00:08:46,522 --> 00:08:51,473 economically, and financially from the project? 107 00:08:51,473 --> 00:08:54,183 Who has decision making power? 108 00:08:54,183 --> 00:08:58,647 And are any of the following categories left out of the collaborative process? 109 00:08:58,647 --> 00:09:03,414 Community members, creative sector, education sector, 110 00:09:03,414 --> 00:09:08,185 social and civic sector, media sector, business sector. 111 00:09:08,185 --> 00:09:14,191 And so these are just a few questions you could ask while doing your work. 112 00:09:14,191 --> 00:09:19,133 And so really these help you see within 113 00:09:19,133 --> 00:09:23,615 your company or within your team, 114 00:09:23,615 --> 00:09:28,714 what sorts of intersectionalities you 115 00:09:28,714 --> 00:09:33,829 might be leaving out of your projects. 116 00:09:33,829 --> 00:09:36,247 So it's important to ask these questions. 117 00:09:40,730 --> 00:09:49,388 And finally, one way that you can help obviously, is by donating. 118 00:09:49,388 --> 00:09:52,223 So if you have the means, 119 00:09:52,223 --> 00:09:58,164 these are some black-led LGBTQ+ organizations. 120 00:09:58,164 --> 00:10:01,541 And As we know, during this time, 121 00:10:01,541 --> 00:10:08,028 it's increasingly important to support these organizations. 122 00:10:08,028 --> 00:10:14,971 And these are coming from Raquel Willis who if you are unaware, 123 00:10:14,971 --> 00:10:23,355 she is a very prominent transblack activist who is very active on Twitter and 124 00:10:23,355 --> 00:10:27,301 just an amazing activist overall. 125 00:10:27,301 --> 00:10:32,552 And so if you follow her, you can get more information 126 00:10:32,552 --> 00:10:37,351 like this in terms of organizations to support. 127 00:10:39,950 --> 00:10:44,612 All right, thank you so much, like to thank Treehouse for 128 00:10:44,612 --> 00:10:48,240 hosting this event and inviting me to speak. 129 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,240 And if you would like to find me on social media, 130 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,114 my Twitter handle is @abelq16 and 131 00:10:57,114 --> 00:11:01,119 then LinkedIn is just Abel Quintero. 132 00:11:01,119 --> 00:11:02,265 So thank you. 133 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,166 All right, so let's see one question. 134 00:11:10,166 --> 00:11:14,505 How can we as white LGBT populations not 135 00:11:14,505 --> 00:11:19,372 take opportunity in tech away from BIPOC and 136 00:11:19,372 --> 00:11:22,935 intersectional populations? 137 00:11:22,935 --> 00:11:25,024 So that is a great question. 138 00:11:25,024 --> 00:11:29,766 I think, in order to be a good 139 00:11:29,766 --> 00:11:34,116 ally towards the BIPOC and 140 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:39,457 intersectional populations, 141 00:11:39,457 --> 00:11:44,794 I think it's important if you do 142 00:11:44,794 --> 00:11:50,924 have a privilege of say being white, 143 00:11:50,924 --> 00:11:55,884 even though you're a queer. 144 00:11:55,884 --> 00:12:02,874 I think it's important to really try to raise and 145 00:12:02,874 --> 00:12:08,168 share the voices of people of color. 146 00:12:08,168 --> 00:12:13,403 And so I think one way to not take opportunity away 147 00:12:13,403 --> 00:12:19,025 from those populations is to amplify their voices, 148 00:12:19,025 --> 00:12:23,494 whether that be through social media, or 149 00:12:23,494 --> 00:12:28,859 mentoring or just helping folks out on LinkedIn, 150 00:12:28,859 --> 00:12:33,737 or whatever organization you're a part of. 151 00:12:33,737 --> 00:12:39,671 And yeah that is a great question, so thank you to whoever asked that. 152 00:12:39,671 --> 00:12:42,838 Okay, question I see from V, 153 00:12:42,838 --> 00:12:47,655 are there groups you'd recommend to connect 154 00:12:47,655 --> 00:12:52,360 with other LGBTQ folks in the tech space.? 155 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,401 Obviously as I mentioned Out in Tech, 156 00:12:56,401 --> 00:13:00,316 which I am part of their leadership, 157 00:13:00,316 --> 00:13:05,889 they are the largest LGBTQ+ organization in tech. 158 00:13:05,889 --> 00:13:10,823 And so I highly recommend looking into them. 159 00:13:10,823 --> 00:13:15,780 There are I believe like 15 chapters around the world, 160 00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:20,852 currently, and we're always expanding to more cities. 161 00:13:20,852 --> 00:13:24,623 So yeah, if you're interested I would definitely recommend joining. 162 00:13:24,623 --> 00:13:28,116 I can post the website in the chat. 163 00:13:34,521 --> 00:13:39,493 And then besides Out in Tech, there's also, 164 00:13:39,493 --> 00:13:45,316 yeah as Nicole links, there's also Lesbians Who Tech, 165 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:49,340 which is another great organization. 166 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:54,452 And there's also, this is not tech specific but 167 00:13:54,452 --> 00:14:01,185 there's also Out in STEM, which is for anybody in the science, 168 00:14:01,185 --> 00:14:06,062 technology, engineering, and math space. 169 00:14:06,062 --> 00:14:08,667 So, I [INAUDIBLE] as well. 170 00:14:08,667 --> 00:14:13,242 Yes, and thank you, Mel for pointing that out. 171 00:14:13,242 --> 00:14:16,419 Out in Tech is not just in certain cities. 172 00:14:16,419 --> 00:14:22,181 Now that everything's sort of virtual during the pandemic, 173 00:14:22,181 --> 00:14:26,943 we've been having a bunch of virtual meetups and so 174 00:14:26,943 --> 00:14:32,400 you can literally be anywhere in the world to attend this. 175 00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:40,119 Okay, next question. 176 00:14:40,119 --> 00:14:42,679 I notice that Out in Tech only has mentorship program for youth. 177 00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:47,181 But are there any resources to find a mentor for 178 00:14:47,181 --> 00:14:50,309 people who are older than that? 179 00:14:50,309 --> 00:14:52,591 Great question. 180 00:14:52,591 --> 00:14:57,987 As far as I know, within Out in Tech 181 00:14:57,987 --> 00:15:03,199 there is isn't an initiative yet 182 00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:09,713 for mentorship for outside of youth, but 183 00:15:09,713 --> 00:15:15,485 I think I've definitely come across 184 00:15:15,485 --> 00:15:20,901 different mentoring platforms. 185 00:15:20,901 --> 00:15:27,438 I cannot think of a name off the top of my head but 186 00:15:27,438 --> 00:15:34,147 I know like if you google like tech mentorship, 187 00:15:34,147 --> 00:15:41,710 there should be a lot of results that you can look for. 188 00:15:41,710 --> 00:15:49,423 But also I think another way to find a good mentor is like more organically. 189 00:15:49,423 --> 00:15:54,997 So this could be either like in the company or 190 00:15:54,997 --> 00:15:58,623 organization you work for. 191 00:15:58,623 --> 00:16:03,367 It can be good to find a mentor within there to 192 00:16:03,367 --> 00:16:07,600 sort of help you navigate the company or 193 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:14,400 even within organizations like Out in Tech or Tech [INAUDIBLE], 194 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,424 the Slack communities tend to be very active. 195 00:16:19,424 --> 00:16:24,786 And so usually, if you reach out to somebody in your area or 196 00:16:24,786 --> 00:16:31,803 even like they don't have to be in your area, it could be virtual meetings. 197 00:16:31,803 --> 00:16:36,838 I know there's a lot of people out there who are seniors 198 00:16:36,838 --> 00:16:41,560 in the industry and are looking to help others out. 199 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:48,949 And so I would not be afraid to reach out to anybody within those communities. 200 00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:54,111 And just ask if they're willing to mentor you. 201 00:16:54,111 --> 00:16:57,582 And yeah, a lot of the time, 202 00:16:57,582 --> 00:17:02,644 I think you'll be surprised to how open to 203 00:17:02,644 --> 00:17:07,576 meeting folks in the tech industry are. 204 00:17:07,576 --> 00:17:16,170 So yeah, don't hesitate to reach out to find a mentor that way as well. 205 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:21,986 Apologies for the construction noise in the background. 206 00:17:27,139 --> 00:17:31,070 Ryan, thank you for sharing [INAUDIBLE] tech social. 207 00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:32,850 Another great organization. 208 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,164 Got a question from V, have you personally encountered issues or 209 00:17:44,164 --> 00:17:49,040 challenges to inclusion and diversity in the workplace and 210 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,203 how do you address these? 211 00:17:51,203 --> 00:17:55,294 Also curious if you have tips to advance the vision or 212 00:17:55,294 --> 00:18:00,504 create spaces for LGBTQ plus or other marginalized communities? 213 00:18:03,946 --> 00:18:09,196 Sorry folks, I [INAUDIBLE] all this noises here and 214 00:18:09,196 --> 00:18:12,579 then answer in the chat for now. 215 00:18:14,738 --> 00:18:17,475 [LAUGH] The noise stopped so I'm back. 216 00:18:17,475 --> 00:18:23,170 But yeah, so V to answer your question, 217 00:18:23,170 --> 00:18:31,891 I have definitely encountered challenges in the workplace. 218 00:18:31,891 --> 00:18:39,317 Usually these come in the form of microaggressions. 219 00:18:39,317 --> 00:18:44,470 But yeah, generally to address them 220 00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:49,457 I usually either talk to a manager or 221 00:18:49,457 --> 00:18:56,107 talk to other coworkers about what happened and 222 00:18:56,107 --> 00:19:01,426 then allow coworkers to be able to open 223 00:19:01,426 --> 00:19:06,931 up a conversation about these issues. 224 00:19:06,931 --> 00:19:12,307 And yeah, and if your workplace is not willing to have 225 00:19:12,307 --> 00:19:18,534 conversations around that, then I think that's a red flag. 226 00:19:18,534 --> 00:19:25,973 And you should be probably looking for a different organization to work for. 227 00:19:25,973 --> 00:19:31,633 But yeah, in general, I think it's good to be able to openly 228 00:19:31,633 --> 00:19:37,851 communicate about these issues and challenges in the workplace. 229 00:19:37,851 --> 00:19:45,153 And, yeah, I think the best way to adjust it is to directly 230 00:19:45,153 --> 00:19:50,234 talk about it in within your workplace. 231 00:19:50,234 --> 00:19:54,622 Second part of your question, tips to advance inclusion or 232 00:19:54,622 --> 00:19:59,890 create spaces for LGBTQ, other marginalized communities at a company. 233 00:19:59,890 --> 00:20:04,204 So I have primarily 234 00:20:04,204 --> 00:20:09,063 worked at startups. 235 00:20:09,063 --> 00:20:17,024 So small teams that don't necessarily have resources for 236 00:20:17,024 --> 00:20:21,905 ERGs or employee resource groups. 237 00:20:21,905 --> 00:20:26,103 But if you are at a larger organization, 238 00:20:26,103 --> 00:20:32,168 I would definitely recommend joining or creating an ERG. 239 00:20:32,168 --> 00:20:39,595 I know those tend to be very inclusive spaces for 240 00:20:39,595 --> 00:20:44,610 marginalized folks to meet with 241 00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:49,078 others in their community. 242 00:20:49,078 --> 00:20:54,164 But again, if you work for a smaller company, and that doesn't necessarily 243 00:20:54,164 --> 00:20:59,109 have those resources within the company, I would definitely recommend, 244 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:06,753 Joining organizations such as Out in Tech, 245 00:21:06,753 --> 00:21:11,521 and having conversations with other folks 246 00:21:11,521 --> 00:21:16,300 in the communities that you're a part of. 247 00:21:17,639 --> 00:21:23,356 And even if you are at a smaller company or organization, 248 00:21:23,356 --> 00:21:31,353 you can always bring up your involvement in Out in Tech or other organizations. 249 00:21:31,353 --> 00:21:37,430 And for instance, like when I would organize events for 250 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:43,249 Out in Tech, I would announce those in our company's 251 00:21:43,249 --> 00:21:49,481 Slack channel just to let coworkers know what I'm up to. 252 00:21:49,481 --> 00:21:55,063 And occasionally, they would attend as allies, which is awesome. 253 00:21:55,063 --> 00:22:02,060 And yeah, I think it's great that there are are so 254 00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:06,394 many organizations outside of 255 00:22:06,394 --> 00:22:11,905 companies have created these spaces. 256 00:22:11,905 --> 00:22:15,801 Let's see, next question 257 00:22:19,747 --> 00:22:25,458 How can an inclusive UX support 258 00:22:25,458 --> 00:22:29,637 the LGBTQ community? 259 00:22:29,637 --> 00:22:32,897 I think that's a great question. 260 00:22:32,897 --> 00:22:37,881 And yeah as a UX practitioner, 261 00:22:37,881 --> 00:22:43,056 I think one of the most important 262 00:22:43,056 --> 00:22:47,849 components of UX is inclusive 263 00:22:47,849 --> 00:22:53,041 design and accessible design. 264 00:22:53,041 --> 00:22:58,264 And so I think one way that you can create 265 00:22:58,264 --> 00:23:03,173 a more inclusive user experience for 266 00:23:03,173 --> 00:23:08,081 the LGBTQ plus community is to really 267 00:23:08,081 --> 00:23:13,150 think about how you're including all 268 00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:18,060 the different gender identities and 269 00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:22,830 sexualities within your product. 270 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:28,198 So for instance, if there's a form that's asking for 271 00:23:28,198 --> 00:23:32,636 gender, making sure that you include they, 272 00:23:32,636 --> 00:23:39,074 them pronouns as well as other different identifying pronouns. 273 00:23:39,074 --> 00:23:44,949 And you should also allow the option to choose more than one pronoun or 274 00:23:44,949 --> 00:23:47,699 more than one sexual identity. 275 00:23:47,699 --> 00:23:54,349 Because there are a lot of folks who identify with more than one label. 276 00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:59,261 And I think another way to be inclusive in 277 00:23:59,261 --> 00:24:04,465 your UX is, from a marketing standpoint, 278 00:24:04,465 --> 00:24:09,956 is to have representation of same sex couples 279 00:24:09,956 --> 00:24:15,448 like in trans folks, non binary folks in your 280 00:24:15,448 --> 00:24:20,382 marketing photos or marketing emails. 281 00:24:20,382 --> 00:24:25,450 I think that's another easy way to be 282 00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:31,838 inclusive towards the LGBTQ plus community. 283 00:24:31,838 --> 00:24:36,751 Let's see another question, how can you address 284 00:24:36,751 --> 00:24:41,200 performative allyship from your employer? 285 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,365 Really great question. 286 00:24:43,365 --> 00:24:49,961 I think this is a huge issue, especially in these past few months 287 00:24:49,961 --> 00:24:55,591 with like the reignited Black Lives Matter movement. 288 00:24:55,591 --> 00:24:59,998 There have definitely been a lot of 289 00:24:59,998 --> 00:25:05,471 companies who show performative allyship 290 00:25:05,471 --> 00:25:10,039 without actually showing action. 291 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,990 And so yeah If anybody's wondering 292 00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:19,611 like what performative allyship 293 00:25:19,611 --> 00:25:24,569 means just to give a quick example. 294 00:25:24,569 --> 00:25:29,368 A lot of companies during the month of June will 295 00:25:29,368 --> 00:25:34,303 change their logos to rainbow for Pride Month. 296 00:25:34,303 --> 00:25:39,725 And they really won't do much else to show that 297 00:25:39,725 --> 00:25:46,828 they are actually advocating for the LGBTQ plus community. 298 00:25:46,828 --> 00:25:52,062 So that's one example of performative allyship where 299 00:25:52,062 --> 00:25:57,183 they're throwing up this facade of of inclusiveness 300 00:25:57,183 --> 00:26:01,066 without actually showing the actions. 301 00:26:01,066 --> 00:26:09,803 And so I think ways to address that with your employer. 302 00:26:09,803 --> 00:26:15,073 I think one way is to definitely 303 00:26:15,073 --> 00:26:19,940 talk with other employees to 304 00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:24,806 get their sort of opinions on 305 00:26:24,806 --> 00:26:29,894 the performative allyship. 306 00:26:29,894 --> 00:26:36,865 And see if they are agreeing that there needs to be more done or 307 00:26:36,865 --> 00:26:43,430 if they think that the performative allyship is enough, 308 00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:51,378 then try to have conversations with them about why it's not enough. 309 00:26:51,378 --> 00:26:56,723 And I think It's also important to share different 310 00:26:56,723 --> 00:27:03,448 learning resources with your co-workers and your employers. 311 00:27:03,448 --> 00:27:11,832 And I know there's been a ton of learning resources there on social media. 312 00:27:11,832 --> 00:27:17,262 And I think one way to address performative allyship 313 00:27:17,262 --> 00:27:23,311 is to continue sharing those resources with employers and 314 00:27:23,311 --> 00:27:30,858 making sure that they are actually putting in the work to be antiracist. 315 00:27:30,858 --> 00:27:38,355 And to actually show that they are improving equity and 316 00:27:38,355 --> 00:27:42,595 inclusion for the workplace. 317 00:27:42,595 --> 00:27:48,351 And so yeah, unfortunately that is a very common thing. 318 00:27:48,351 --> 00:27:52,524 But I think during times like this, 319 00:27:52,524 --> 00:28:01,022 it's a great time to be having these discussions within the workplace. 320 00:28:01,022 --> 00:28:06,351 And they can definitely be tough conversations to have. 321 00:28:06,351 --> 00:28:11,993 But it's not meant to be an easy topic to discuss. 322 00:28:11,993 --> 00:28:17,164 And the only way to move forward is 323 00:28:17,164 --> 00:28:21,977 to have these conversations. 324 00:28:21,977 --> 00:28:27,269 What questions can we ask in interviews to make 325 00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:32,426 sure the space we work in is honoring bipoc and 326 00:28:32,426 --> 00:28:36,511 LGBTQIA plus, awesome question. 327 00:28:36,511 --> 00:28:42,067 And yeah, I've seen this question being 328 00:28:42,067 --> 00:28:47,956 asked in the Out in Tech Slack space as well. 329 00:28:47,956 --> 00:28:52,096 I think one of the questions 330 00:28:52,096 --> 00:28:56,957 that you can ask your employer or 331 00:28:56,957 --> 00:29:03,619 the interviewer is to ask them specifically 332 00:29:03,619 --> 00:29:08,839 what actions have they been taking 333 00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:14,240 to make sure their work environment 334 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:20,019 is an inclusive and equitable space. 335 00:29:20,019 --> 00:29:25,411 And that's a very straightforward question, 336 00:29:25,411 --> 00:29:30,530 where if they give an answer that does not seem 337 00:29:30,530 --> 00:29:35,532 very adequate it's an immediate red flag. 338 00:29:35,532 --> 00:29:39,968 And if they are actually putting in the work, 339 00:29:39,968 --> 00:29:46,291 then they should have a good detailed answer for that question. 340 00:29:46,291 --> 00:29:52,023 And so that's one that I would ask in an interview. 341 00:29:52,023 --> 00:29:59,259 I would also ask, if you want to get more granular you can ask specifically, 342 00:29:59,259 --> 00:30:04,556 how they're making space more equitable for BIPOC and 343 00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:09,950 LGBTQI plus communities and you could also ask 344 00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:15,759 them about representation within the company and 345 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:20,193 what they're doing to improve that. 346 00:30:20,193 --> 00:30:27,473 Yeah, there's a whole bunch of questions that you can ask. 347 00:30:27,473 --> 00:30:32,048 And yeah, I think I actually 348 00:30:32,048 --> 00:30:36,434 came across a resource with 349 00:30:36,434 --> 00:30:41,585 specific questions like that, 350 00:30:41,585 --> 00:30:48,461 I believe it was from like an AI institute. 351 00:30:48,461 --> 00:30:56,927 But yeah, I will link that before the end of the presentation. 352 00:30:56,927 --> 00:31:02,005 And yeah, let's see, you mentioned introducing 353 00:31:02,005 --> 00:31:06,504 sessions on implicit bias in the workplace. 354 00:31:06,504 --> 00:31:12,070 How would you suggest implementing that in a company, 355 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:16,913 any orgs offering this that you can recommend? 356 00:31:16,913 --> 00:31:17,800 Let's see. 357 00:31:21,886 --> 00:31:27,765 I mean since I have worked only in small teams, 358 00:31:27,765 --> 00:31:33,193 I haven't really had experience bringing 359 00:31:33,193 --> 00:31:39,994 this up in the organizations that I've worked with. 360 00:31:39,994 --> 00:31:43,399 But I do think like, 361 00:31:47,447 --> 00:31:52,052 It is definitely important if you think your 362 00:31:52,052 --> 00:31:56,291 organization has the resources for it. 363 00:31:56,291 --> 00:32:01,426 And I know there are many different 364 00:32:01,426 --> 00:32:06,386 companies that do the training, 365 00:32:06,386 --> 00:32:11,355 trying to think specific names. 366 00:32:11,355 --> 00:32:12,553 Let's see. 367 00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:22,203 So there's one called Diamond Law, 368 00:32:22,203 --> 00:32:26,603 which I'll go ahead and link. 369 00:32:26,603 --> 00:32:30,818 Yeah, and Project Implicit, 370 00:32:30,818 --> 00:32:34,716 which Benjamin mentioned. 371 00:32:34,716 --> 00:32:37,322 Thanks for sharing that. 372 00:32:37,322 --> 00:32:38,835 I have also heard great things about them. 373 00:32:38,835 --> 00:32:43,834 And so yeah, Project Implicit or 374 00:32:43,834 --> 00:32:48,120 Diamond Law, those are just 375 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,952 a couple that you can look into. 376 00:32:52,952 --> 00:32:57,529 And next question, I was curious what a form 377 00:32:57,529 --> 00:33:02,371 that is fully accommodating would look like? 378 00:33:02,371 --> 00:33:05,780 Great question, so 379 00:33:05,780 --> 00:33:10,992 I'm gonna see if I can share one 380 00:33:10,992 --> 00:33:17,619 of the beyond tech forms, one moment. 381 00:33:17,619 --> 00:33:22,410 Okay, while I'm navigating to this I will answer 382 00:33:22,410 --> 00:33:26,984 another question so we don't waste more time. 383 00:33:26,984 --> 00:33:33,820 Let's see, what if your employer is inclusive but 384 00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:38,911 your partners and suppliers are not? 385 00:33:38,911 --> 00:33:40,265 Is it worth adjusting? 386 00:33:40,265 --> 00:33:43,186 That is a great question. 387 00:33:43,186 --> 00:33:47,522 I think it is worth addressing, 388 00:33:47,522 --> 00:33:53,477 especially if your employer is inclusive. 389 00:33:53,477 --> 00:33:58,695 I think if that's something that they truly 390 00:33:58,695 --> 00:34:03,913 value then they should be open to discussing 391 00:34:03,913 --> 00:34:09,004 their suppliers and partners or clients. 392 00:34:09,004 --> 00:34:14,982 And yeah, I think obviously it's 393 00:34:14,982 --> 00:34:20,143 not an easy thing to bring up. 394 00:34:20,143 --> 00:34:26,610 But if there are problematic vendors or 395 00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:32,098 suppliers and your employer does 396 00:34:32,098 --> 00:34:37,391 value an inclusive workplace, 397 00:34:37,391 --> 00:34:45,242 I think they should be open to discussing that. 398 00:34:45,242 --> 00:34:46,362 And let's see. 399 00:34:49,717 --> 00:34:54,247 I've heard of EDI but more people lately are talking about belonging. 400 00:34:54,247 --> 00:34:55,129 Can you speak about that? 401 00:35:03,206 --> 00:35:08,669 I think I mean, EDI obviously has like 402 00:35:08,669 --> 00:35:14,317 been very trendy in the past few years. 403 00:35:14,317 --> 00:35:16,719 As much as I hate calling it that. 404 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:24,363 But I think yeah, I've have also been hearing a lot of belonging. 405 00:35:24,363 --> 00:35:31,824 I feel like that's sort of a more generic term that more people 406 00:35:31,824 --> 00:35:36,849 can automatically know what that means, 407 00:35:36,849 --> 00:35:43,180 as opposed to equity, diversity, and inclusion. 408 00:35:46,406 --> 00:35:53,494 And I think belonging sort of encompasses those as 409 00:35:53,494 --> 00:35:58,567 sort of more like an umbrella term. 410 00:35:58,567 --> 00:36:03,296 So I feel it's kind of a way to invite 411 00:36:03,296 --> 00:36:08,345 folks who might be intimidated by what 412 00:36:08,345 --> 00:36:13,573 does equity mean or what is inclusion? 413 00:36:13,573 --> 00:36:21,371 I think belonging is a term that can be more widely accepted. 414 00:36:21,371 --> 00:36:26,348 And it could be a good segue into discussions of diversity, 415 00:36:26,348 --> 00:36:32,118 equity, and inclusion And 416 00:36:32,118 --> 00:36:36,434 the next question was any tips for 417 00:36:36,434 --> 00:36:41,842 coming out as non binary to my coworkers? 418 00:36:41,842 --> 00:36:49,963 That's a tough one because I personally don't identify as non binary so 419 00:36:49,963 --> 00:36:54,902 I don't have the lived experience of that. 420 00:36:54,902 --> 00:36:59,525 But I do have one of my colleagues on 421 00:36:59,525 --> 00:37:04,309 the Out in Tech Portland leadership 422 00:37:04,309 --> 00:37:08,933 team did come out as non binary last 423 00:37:08,933 --> 00:37:13,723 year to both us and their employer. 424 00:37:13,723 --> 00:37:21,373 And I believe there's also in the Out in Tech Slack channel, 425 00:37:21,373 --> 00:37:25,872 there is a channel specifically for 426 00:37:25,872 --> 00:37:32,332 non binary trans and gender non conforming folks. 427 00:37:32,332 --> 00:37:36,842 And so if you join that channel, 428 00:37:36,842 --> 00:37:42,018 I'm sure you get a lot of great advice 429 00:37:42,018 --> 00:37:47,877 from people who do have that experience. 430 00:37:47,877 --> 00:37:54,122 And yeah, I'll link it again so you can find the Slack. 431 00:37:57,451 --> 00:37:58,788 So here we go. 432 00:38:06,035 --> 00:38:10,079 So that link is directly to sign up for the Out in Tech Slack. 433 00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:18,158 And what things do you want to accomplish in your own career? 434 00:38:18,158 --> 00:38:20,981 Awesome question. 435 00:38:20,981 --> 00:38:25,362 [LAUGH] Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. 436 00:38:25,362 --> 00:38:34,055 Personally, I come from a very multidisciplinary background and 437 00:38:34,055 --> 00:38:40,584 I have a lot of passion in a lot of different areas. 438 00:38:40,584 --> 00:38:47,481 So my career goals are kinda all over the place. 439 00:38:47,481 --> 00:38:53,393 But in the near near future, My 440 00:38:53,393 --> 00:39:00,601 goals are definitely to like take on a more hybrid design and 441 00:39:00,601 --> 00:39:05,647 development role, just because I really 442 00:39:05,647 --> 00:39:11,859 love both front end development and the UX design. 443 00:39:11,859 --> 00:39:19,320 And I wanna improve my skill set in both of those areas. 444 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:25,366 And yeah, beyond that I'm hoping to learn more about UX research and 445 00:39:25,366 --> 00:39:29,968 potentially specialize more in that down the line. 446 00:39:29,968 --> 00:39:34,360 And I have also thought about [LAUGH] career 447 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,263 switches like five, ten years down the line. 448 00:39:39,263 --> 00:39:45,150 As much as I love tech, I would also like to potentially 449 00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:49,632 explore urban design and or counseling. 450 00:39:49,632 --> 00:39:54,653 Those are two other areas that I'm very interested in. 451 00:40:00,904 --> 00:40:05,758 Next question is what needs to change within businesses to create an inclusive 452 00:40:05,758 --> 00:40:06,600 environment? 453 00:40:08,545 --> 00:40:15,710 So I think Within a business, 454 00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:21,088 creating an inclusive environment starts with 455 00:40:21,088 --> 00:40:29,432 having a discussion about what your work environment is currently like? 456 00:40:29,432 --> 00:40:35,165 And that means asking marginalized employees, 457 00:40:35,165 --> 00:40:40,337 how they're feeling within the company and 458 00:40:40,337 --> 00:40:44,551 what they think could be improved. 459 00:40:44,551 --> 00:40:50,635 And so it can start with asking those difficult 460 00:40:50,635 --> 00:40:55,784 questions and sort of getting a gauge on 461 00:40:55,784 --> 00:41:00,945 what the current environment is like. 462 00:41:00,945 --> 00:41:06,874 And then I think once you have established 463 00:41:06,874 --> 00:41:11,958 that in within your company the next 464 00:41:11,958 --> 00:41:20,438 thing that you have to do is to create a list of action items. 465 00:41:20,438 --> 00:41:25,914 And these are like specific actions that you as 466 00:41:25,914 --> 00:41:31,112 a business will be implementing to actually 467 00:41:31,112 --> 00:41:36,174 create that more inclusive environment. 468 00:41:36,174 --> 00:41:41,597 And it's important to have a concrete list of things things, 469 00:41:41,597 --> 00:41:45,769 because otherwise it could remain nebulous and 470 00:41:45,769 --> 00:41:50,671 then you're stuck in that whole performative ally ship 471 00:41:50,671 --> 00:41:56,012 cycle if you're not actually taking the concrete actions. 472 00:41:56,012 --> 00:42:03,422 And so yeah, that's my advice for changing inside of a business. 473 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,756 Next question is along similar lines how to a company 474 00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:16,755 measure the results of their inclusion efforts. 475 00:42:16,755 --> 00:42:23,123 I think there's a lot of different ways to measure this. 476 00:42:23,123 --> 00:42:27,818 I know in the Portland tech community, 477 00:42:27,818 --> 00:42:32,654 we have an organization called PBX women 478 00:42:32,654 --> 00:42:37,063 in tech that every year does this mass 479 00:42:37,063 --> 00:42:41,918 survey on the state of tech in Portland. 480 00:42:41,918 --> 00:42:45,979 And there's a whole bunch of questions within 481 00:42:45,979 --> 00:42:49,632 that survey about equity and inclusion. 482 00:42:49,632 --> 00:42:56,144 And usually thousands of folks in the tech community here, fill that out. 483 00:42:56,144 --> 00:43:01,273 So that's one way to measure 484 00:43:01,273 --> 00:43:06,627 results is through a survey. 485 00:43:06,627 --> 00:43:12,510 Asking questions like how do the employees 486 00:43:12,510 --> 00:43:16,433 feel about their managers or 487 00:43:16,433 --> 00:43:23,796 have there been any instances of microaggressions. 488 00:43:23,796 --> 00:43:28,545 And, yeah, questions like that. 489 00:43:28,545 --> 00:43:33,549 I think another way to measure 490 00:43:33,549 --> 00:43:38,155 results besides a survey, 491 00:43:38,155 --> 00:43:43,559 would also be to from a usability 492 00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:49,966 perspective would be using a tool to, 493 00:43:49,966 --> 00:43:56,371 clicks or user behavior on a website or 494 00:43:56,371 --> 00:44:03,199 whatever product that you're making. 495 00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:09,103 And so that's like a typical research tool that can 496 00:44:09,103 --> 00:44:14,457 be used to see if the steps that you've taken to 497 00:44:14,457 --> 00:44:19,695 make your site more accessible are working. 498 00:44:19,695 --> 00:44:23,667 Then yeah, that's another good way to measure those efforts. 499 00:44:27,811 --> 00:44:31,496 Next question is what is your current job position? 500 00:44:31,496 --> 00:44:35,023 What languages do you think are the most relevant for what you want to do? 501 00:44:38,894 --> 00:44:43,141 So my current position is 502 00:44:43,141 --> 00:44:48,205 a front end engineer at IV AI. 503 00:44:48,205 --> 00:44:51,354 And yeah in addition to front end engineering, 504 00:44:51,354 --> 00:44:54,039 I also do some UX design for them as well. 505 00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:59,388 In terms of languages, this is a question that 506 00:44:59,388 --> 00:45:04,746 gets asked, I feel like a lot in the industry. 507 00:45:04,746 --> 00:45:08,128 And my personal opinion and 508 00:45:08,128 --> 00:45:13,718 one that I've heard from a lot of other people 509 00:45:13,718 --> 00:45:18,718 as well is that it doesn't matter as much 510 00:45:18,718 --> 00:45:23,718 what languages that you have a knowledge 511 00:45:23,718 --> 00:45:28,448 of one language and that you can show. 512 00:45:28,448 --> 00:45:34,861 Slowly an employer that you are going to learn other languages and 513 00:45:34,861 --> 00:45:39,069 that you have to learn those efficiently. 514 00:45:39,069 --> 00:45:44,545 So I think that the skill set of being a continuous learner is more 515 00:45:44,545 --> 00:45:49,733 important than the specific languages that you're using. 516 00:45:49,733 --> 00:45:55,076 Yeah, don't be afraid to apply to a position where that the company 517 00:45:55,076 --> 00:46:00,352 might be using a different language or Stack than you're used to. 518 00:46:00,352 --> 00:46:05,486 Because if they're a good employer then they should 519 00:46:05,486 --> 00:46:10,864 be open to candidates being able to learn their stock. 520 00:46:16,029 --> 00:46:22,731 Next, Okay, 521 00:46:22,731 --> 00:46:28,887 this is a sort of a loaded question. 522 00:46:31,632 --> 00:46:39,912 And yeah, by that I mean,[LAUGHS] could be more controversial but 523 00:46:39,912 --> 00:46:44,557 I think I will address it a question is. 524 00:46:44,557 --> 00:46:50,678 Is your personal opinion that the masculine feminine archetype 525 00:46:50,678 --> 00:46:56,469 is beneficial or detrimental overall to society as a whole. 526 00:46:56,469 --> 00:47:01,458 My personal opinion is that it 527 00:47:01,458 --> 00:47:06,255 is detrimental to society. 528 00:47:06,255 --> 00:47:10,238 I feel these archetypes 529 00:47:10,238 --> 00:47:15,220 were socially constructed, 530 00:47:15,220 --> 00:47:21,393 as a way to separate male and female, 531 00:47:21,393 --> 00:47:27,977 like beyond biological differences. 532 00:47:27,977 --> 00:47:32,812 And think that as whole has be 533 00:47:32,812 --> 00:47:37,648 detrimental to both male and 534 00:47:37,648 --> 00:47:44,097 female cuz there are minority folks, 535 00:47:44,097 --> 00:47:49,348 I mean I can go on for long time. 536 00:47:49,348 --> 00:47:55,292 Yeah, I mean, like one example is just masculinity and 537 00:47:55,292 --> 00:48:02,513 the effects that it has on mental health for both males and females. 538 00:48:02,513 --> 00:48:09,803 I think there have been plenty of studies on the detriments of that. 539 00:48:09,803 --> 00:48:14,406 But yeah short answer is I do believe that it's detrimental. 540 00:48:18,025 --> 00:48:21,074 Let's see, yes, so 541 00:48:21,074 --> 00:48:26,104 I was gonna share my screen real quick to 542 00:48:26,104 --> 00:48:30,991 show an example of an inclusive form. 543 00:48:34,765 --> 00:48:36,037 Okay, so here we go. 544 00:48:39,911 --> 00:48:41,482 Screen Share. 545 00:48:45,997 --> 00:48:51,335 All right, and so, okay, I'm in sound second 546 00:48:51,335 --> 00:48:56,001 bright and the mount we hosted back in February. 547 00:48:56,001 --> 00:49:04,035 So in this form, you can see we have our basic things names, 548 00:49:04,035 --> 00:49:08,865 email, cell, that type of stuff. 549 00:49:08,865 --> 00:49:14,416 So for pronouns, we have that as an like an open ended 550 00:49:14,416 --> 00:49:21,612 question where the user gets to type in whatever pronouns they use, 551 00:49:21,612 --> 00:49:27,567 as well as list other pronouns if they choose to do that. 552 00:49:27,567 --> 00:49:34,904 And then with how do you identify for that question? 553 00:49:34,904 --> 00:49:38,673 Let me go into the setting. 554 00:49:38,673 --> 00:49:43,123 So we have all these different options female male, so 555 00:49:43,123 --> 00:49:46,415 we have different gender identities and 556 00:49:46,415 --> 00:49:51,087 then we have different sexualities covering spectrum. 557 00:49:51,087 --> 00:49:58,669 And then we have different racial identities covering the full spectrum. 558 00:49:58,669 --> 00:50:03,761 And then of course, there should always be an option to say I'd 559 00:50:03,761 --> 00:50:08,870 rather not say for those who don't wish to share these things. 560 00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:14,544 So yeah, that's just a quick example of how to make your form inclusive. 561 00:50:16,455 --> 00:50:21,192 And, Let's see. 562 00:50:21,192 --> 00:50:26,773 Yeah, sounds like we are about at time. 563 00:50:26,773 --> 00:50:31,459 So yeah, I wanna thank everybody who attended for 564 00:50:31,459 --> 00:50:36,823 being a great audience and asking some great questions. 565 00:50:36,823 --> 00:50:42,107 Yeah, feel free to reach out to me on Twitter or LinkedIn. 566 00:50:42,107 --> 00:50:49,191 And yeah, hopefully I'll see some of you in the Slack as well. 567 00:50:49,191 --> 00:50:55,778 So yeah, thank you everyone, and thank you to Treehouse for hosting this event. 568 00:50:55,778 --> 00:50:58,606 Yeah, it's been a pleasure and yeah, 569 00:50:58,606 --> 00:51:01,872 I hope everyone has a great rest of their day.