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7 Steps I Recommend to be in Demand in Tech with Jae Taylor
57:27 with TreehouseProduct Manager Jae Taylor discusses their recommendations for how to be an in demand worker.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
So yeah, it's my pleasure to
welcome you to seven steps I
0:06
recommend to be in demand
in tech with Jae Taylor.
0:10
Jae was an office assistant,
a young dad, [INAUDIBLE] degree and
0:14
still doesn't and
had no connections in the tech industry.
0:18
And even with the challenges that come
with being in minority, black and Korean,
0:23
he broke into the tech industry and has
succeeded at some of the top companies in
0:28
the world, including Microsoft, Expedia,
Salesforce, Twitter and built two.
0:33
Currently a group product manager for
Twitter, Jae is also a founder of
0:39
mentorship.io, which is a mentor lead tech
education and career support community.
0:44
And as a hiring manager and mentor,
Jae aims to share his story, clear hiring
0:49
misconceptions, and attempt to provide
a new perspective and path of success.
0:54
Take it away Jae.
0:59
>> So hopefully you guys can see
my presentation the right way.
1:01
[LAUGH] Okay, good.
1:03
All right, sounds good.
1:07
Well, really appreciate you guys
spending some time with me.
1:08
I think I have a pretty compelling story.
1:12
So for those of you that are looking for
jobs in tech,
1:14
I'm telling you, you can do it.
1:17
And I'm one of those examples that
regardless of where you are in life,
1:20
whatever situations or
limitations you think you might have,
1:24
you can still absolutely do it and
you can achieve any level that you want.
1:28
So let's talk about specifically about my
story and then some of the things that
1:33
I would suggest that you
do based on my experience.
1:38
All right, so first disclaimer,
everything I say, it's just my opinion.
1:41
Take it with a grain of salt,
I can only speak to what I experienced.
1:44
I can't speak to what other people
experience, so kinda keep that in mind.
1:49
So what you gonna learn?
1:53
Why I'm in demand and
how you can replicate what I did.
1:54
I don't apply for jobs,
but I get job offers very,
1:59
very regularly from some of
the top companies in the world.
2:02
And I wanna show you why.
2:05
So this is kind of a quick overview.
2:10
I'm gonna talk about me, talk about
the problem that I wanna help you solve,
2:12
why I'm in demand,
seven things I want you to do.
2:17
And then a quick special invitation and
then we'll do a Q&A.
2:20
So a little bit about me.
2:24
So like Guil brought out,
I was an office assistant.
2:26
I do not have a bachelor's degree.
2:30
Can you guys hear me okay, right?
2:35
I hear somebody asking about sound,
just wanna check.
2:37
Okay, great.
2:40
So I was an office assistant.
2:42
Again, no degree, no connections.
2:44
I'm 100% self taught.
2:46
I'm a GPM, right here it says staff,
but staff and
2:49
actually group product
manager is actually the same.
2:51
The only difference is whether or not you
manage people and I do manage people.
2:54
So I'm at Twitter.
2:58
I'm also founder of MentorMesh.Io.
3:00
That's basically my way to help you.
3:03
I'm really passionate about helping
people understand their real potential.
3:05
When I think about times in my career
where I didn't realize that I was
3:10
capable of what I am, I wanna help
provide the education, support,
3:15
and community to help you do what I did.
3:20
So like was mentioned,
I've been senior at Salesforce,
3:23
a director of product at Salesforce.
3:25
Senior PM at Microsoft,
engineering manager at Expedia, and
3:27
now GPM at Twitter.
3:32
So let's talk a little bit about my story,
and
3:33
then I'll kind of explain more
why it matters in detail.
3:36
So I was actually working for
Washington state government.
3:40
I was in my mid to mid 20s,
late 20s, and I had two daughters.
3:43
I just wanted to do more for them.
3:49
Today I have four daughters, but back
then I was a young dad, two daughters.
3:52
Not my first career,
just trying to make it.
3:58
I was an office assistant,
making $12 an hour, working for
4:00
Washington state government.
4:04
And then when nobody,
I was trying to get a better job and
4:06
I would try to get into tech and
I was self studying.
4:09
And then when nobody would hire me,
they would block me on bachelor's degree.
4:11
They say, well,
you don't have a bachelor's degree.
4:16
And that bothered me a lot because it
was illogical, I could do the job.
4:18
I had proven through side projects and
things that I've done that
4:23
even in my current role as an office
assistant, I was looking for things to do.
4:28
And I knew I could do the job and
it made no sense to me that I would
4:34
not be considered simply because I
didn't have a bachelor's degree.
4:38
So I went and started my own
software consulting company.
4:42
I barely had any experience.
4:45
Again, 100% self taught, but
I just created a website,
4:47
started posting, and
I started doing the work.
4:51
I hired myself.
4:54
When nobody would hire me, I hired myself.
4:55
I ran that consulting company for
about six years.
4:58
I did a software startup with
another founder called VendScreen.
5:01
We got 35 million in venture capital
funding, it was very successful.
5:06
I learned so
many lessons by being an entrepreneur.
5:10
Now after that, this is when the financial
crisis hit back in 2009, 2010.
5:13
Housing market was going crazy.
5:19
This is my start to
lose a lot of business.
5:22
And so this is when I went to Expedia.
5:24
Now the interesting thing about that is,
5:27
when I first applied to Expedia,
I got rejected.
5:30
So everyone's success story is not
a clear, uphill straight path,
5:34
there's bumps in this road.
5:39
But you got to remember that
just because you get rejected,
5:41
doesn't mean you're not qualified,
not at all.
5:44
It's not about your qualifications.
5:47
Don't let rejection define
you because it doesn't.
5:49
The interview process is difficult.
5:52
So just because you failed,
does not mean you can't do the job.
5:53
I can back, I don't know,
maybe nine months later, and I applied for
5:58
a temporal.
6:02
And I was able to get in.
6:02
I had that role as a three month contract,
but I had a point to prove.
6:03
I wanted to prove that I
deserved a seat at Expedia.
6:06
And so, that three months contract,
6:08
I finished in two weeks.
6:15
And instead of asking them,
what else would you like me to do?
6:19
I networked, I built relationships.
6:22
I talked to people, and
I just started continuing to add value.
6:25
I didn't have to ask permission.
6:30
I just told them hey, I'm done with
this that you originally hired me for,
6:31
what else can I do?
6:35
Actually, I didn't say that.
6:36
I didn't say what else can I do.
6:38
Here's what I can do.
6:39
And then I started to do all
these other projects, right?
6:40
As I was doing that,
another hiring manager saw me and
6:44
said, saw the great work I was doing and
offered me a full time role, and
6:48
let me actually define
my own job description.
6:52
They were interested in me,
not necessarily me filling a role and
6:55
I think that's a very important
thing that I'll talk about later.
6:59
But having that entrepreneurial attitude,
go find the problems, don't wait for
7:02
instructions.
7:05
Don't wait for
somebody to just tell you what to do,
7:06
you go find the problems, right?
7:09
So I was at Expedia for
about three years, and
7:11
I built three different engineering
organizations while I was there.
7:13
Built a whole subset of new
capabilities they had never had before.
7:16
And again,
I had never done this before, right?
7:20
Originally, they rejected me, but
I had a tremendous impact at Expedia.
7:23
I was there for about three years and when
I felt I kind of outgrew the experiences
7:28
there, that's when I went to Microsoft.
7:31
I was at Microsoft for
about two and a half years.
7:33
I was on the Power BI team and I helped
build a web engineering team there.
7:36
Then at this point,
I was having my fourth daughter,
7:40
I wanted better work life balance,
and so I went to Salesforce.
7:44
Salesforce is a great company.
7:48
I built a data cataloging and
data platform team there, product team.
7:51
And then I was there for about two years.
7:55
And then now I'm here at Twitter.
7:57
I've been at Twitter for
8:00
about seven months to build a platform
developer experience product team.
8:01
So that's my really quick story.
8:06
I'm gonna go through the seven
things that I want you to do, and
8:08
just different ways to think about this.
8:11
Cuz I want you to know that so
much about success is about your grit.
8:14
I got this poster up here,
but I'm telling you,
8:18
a lot of people think that you
gotta be super smart, okay?
8:22
In sure, yeah, maybe.
8:26
Not really, success is a choice.
8:27
Sometimes it's about discipline,
persistence, right?
8:30
That's what I'm gonna teach you.
8:32
So let's talk about seven
kind of concrete things.
8:34
Now first, let's define the problem.
8:36
Before we even define that,
let's take a step back here.
8:39
And let's talk about what you really want
because I think it's different than what
8:45
people say.
8:50
A lot of people will say,
I wanna be a data scientist or
8:50
I wanna be a software engineer.
8:53
But if you've never had that role,
how do you know you're gonna like it?
8:55
I think you want something
a little bit different.
8:59
So let's talk a little bit about that.
9:01
Let's talk about my career goals.
9:03
I wanna be in demand.
9:06
Why?
Because I want stability for my family.
9:08
I don't wanna worry about getting a job.
9:10
I wanna make really good money.
9:12
I wanna take my kids to Hawaii.
9:13
I wanna take them to Disneyland.
9:15
I don't want finance to be a problem.
9:17
I want ultimate flexibility.
9:20
I wanna work whenever I want,
however I want, in whatever domain I want.
9:22
I want financial independence so
that the where I work doesn't matter.
9:27
Now I'm willing to bet that
many of you are like me.
9:31
Now you might pick data science,
you might pick software engineering.
9:34
And maybe that is interesting to you.
9:39
But at the end of the day,
9:41
I'm willing to bet most of you just want
a good job that you feel proud to work.
9:43
You enjoy what you're doing.
9:48
You're recognized and given,
you feel a sense of accomplishment.
9:49
You can care for your family.
9:53
Sometimes it's actually that,
and you're actually guessing, and
9:56
saying well software engineering
It makes good money.
10:00
I think working for
Google sounds great, right?
10:04
And so
you pick these domains cuz you're right,
10:07
a lot of what I'm talking about,
these companies can provide, right?
10:10
But I want you to upload with that for
a second.
10:14
And that's kind of where I come in,
where my philosophy comes in.
10:18
I believe you can have all of these things
because I have all of these things.
10:23
You don't have to choose between money and
flexibility.
10:27
You can see your family, you don't
have to work 60, 70 hours a week.
10:32
I work a modest 40 hour work week and
I have all of these things.
10:35
And I wanna show you how I did that.
10:42
Now, why be in demand?
10:46
Let's talk about that first.
10:48
It kind of goes into a lot of what I said,
the real goals, right?
10:50
Freedom and control, if you don't like
what you're doing, do something else.
10:53
If you wanna make more money,
you want more flexibility in life,
10:58
you wanna work part time,
all of that stuff it's up to you.
11:02
I want you to skip
the application process.
11:06
People that are in demand
don't apply online.
11:09
I did not apply online, ever.
11:12
I have an incredible salary and
it's a lot more than you think.
11:18
A lot of people in tech,
they think 100,000, 200,
11:22
300,000, I make substantially
more than that.
11:27
And I don't work 80 hour weeks,
I work very, very modest weeks.
11:31
I can see my kids whenever I want to.
11:35
Even before the pandemic,
11:38
I was working from home four
days a week because I wanted to.
11:39
Best pay, work life balance, flexibility.
11:43
HIA, have it all.
11:46
My career is on autopilot,
I do not apply for jobs.
11:48
Matter of fact,
if you guys follow me on LinkedIn,
11:52
I have a major announcement probably,
with this week or next week.
11:55
It's actually pretty cool.
11:59
Financial independence,
you do not have to choose and
12:00
you don't have to spend years and
years earning credentials.
12:04
Now they have some value,
I'm not gonna say that they don't.
12:10
But there are other alternatives.
12:13
Okay, so what is the formula?
12:16
You guys are like okay, Jay,
[LAUGH] how did you do it?
12:18
Okay, let's do it.
12:22
Seven Steps, I'm gonna be very specific.
12:24
So first of all, let's be logical here.
12:26
People always say do what you love.
12:29
I say that's illogical, okay?
12:32
You have to do what's in demand
if you wanna be in demand.
12:36
Now the reason people say do what you
love is because they want you to be happy
12:41
in your job, I totally get that.
12:44
But I would argue that if you
play to your strengths and
12:47
you're good at your job,
you'll also like your job.
12:50
But if you do what's in demand
you're more likely to be in demand.
12:56
Like if you love to bake but everybody has
a gluten allergy, you're screwed, right?
13:00
Who cares if you know how to I mean?
13:07
Yes great, you love to bake but
nobody can eat bread.
13:10
So you have a problem, okay?
13:14
So my thing is play to your strengths and
there is a spot for you in tech,
13:15
all kinds of personality types.
13:20
Tech is synonymous with business, okay?
13:22
So there's a place for you.
13:25
You just need to know
what your strengths are.
13:26
Play to your strengths,
understand what's happening in the market,
13:28
you can be successful.
13:31
Now what I will tell you in my experience
is that your relationship with your
13:32
direct manager contributes to your
happiness more than anything else.
13:37
You can love your role, but if your
relationship with your boss is all screwed
13:42
up, I mean,
you're not gonna like your job.
13:45
So I get it, you wanna be happy, but play
to your strengths and do what's in demand.
13:48
That to me makes way more sense.
13:52
I feel like you'll get way
more success that way.
13:54
Okay, mindset shift,
you've got to think differently.
13:59
This is a big one, because you've been
told certain things in your life.
14:02
And I'm telling you that
only some of that is true.
14:10
Here's one quick example, mindset is
more important than domain expertise.
14:14
I got a XBox, xCloud principal
level product offer from xCloud,
14:19
which is their new online
game streaming platform.
14:24
Now, here's the deal.
14:29
I have never done anything
professional in gaming and
14:30
I have never done anything in streaming.
14:33
I don't know anything about it, but
14:35
they offered me a principal
product role at Microsoft.
14:37
Now why would they do that?
14:41
You would think that if I wanted that job,
I would go study streaming, right?
14:42
I'd go study architecture,
that's what everyone would do.
14:47
I'd study gaming platforms and
I don't know none of that.
14:50
But they offered me a lead role to
help lead a brand new industry and
14:55
represent Microsoft.
15:01
Why would they do that?
15:03
Because here's the thing about tech.
15:05
Everything is brand new all the time.
15:06
It's changing all the time.
15:08
You can't find experts all the time.
15:09
So what they're looking for
is a proven track record of being able to
15:11
take something super ambiguous and
turn it into something real.
15:15
I've had enough success in
my career that they just
15:18
trusted that I can do it,
that's it, right?
15:23
So think about that.
15:27
It's not always about domain expertise,
okay?
15:31
All right, so
let's get into some details here.
15:35
So step 1, entrepreneurial mindset.
15:37
So I told you that I was
an entrepreneur when I started, right?
15:39
I ran that company for about six years.
15:43
Now what does it mean
to be an entrepreneur?
15:45
Well, you care about value
versus looking good.
15:47
A lot of people that work for
big companies,
15:49
they are trained to do
what their boss says.
15:52
But that's not how you stand out,
that's not how you become in demand.
15:57
You always serve your customer,
you always look for impact,
16:02
you always do what makes sense.
16:06
So care about the value that you provide
not just about looking good to your boss.
16:10
And you'd be surprised even now most
people still just do what their
16:14
boss wants.
16:17
Listen, understand the real problem,
not just the symptom.
16:20
When someone asks you to do something,
whether you're an engineer or a product
16:23
lead or anything like that, ask yourself
why, ask them why, do the research why.
16:27
Because they may be quick to give you some
solution that doesn't make any sense.
16:31
Understand why, that is your benefit,
don't just do what you're told.
16:35
Understand why, ask good questions, and
make sure you're solving the real problem.
16:39
So again, most people are told what to do,
don't wait to be told what to do,
16:46
you go find those problems.
16:49
When I was at Expedia, the reason I was so
impactful is cuz I didn't wait around for
16:51
someone to tell me what to do.
16:55
I went around and I talked to people,
people will tell you what's wrong.
16:57
They'll tell you the pain that they feel,
you start seeing common themes,
17:00
common problems, you go find those
problems, you go fix those problems.
17:04
Alleviate people's pain, serve them first,
and then they will help you later.
17:08
Some big, big key to success is building
relationships across the company,
17:14
especially if you're in
a big matrixed organization.
17:18
Take the time, build relationships,
help other people.
17:21
They will help you later.
17:25
That is essentially how I built all of
my teams at Expedia is that I found new
17:28
problems to fix,
I came up with some ways to fix them.
17:32
I did quick MVPs and then I asked for
funding to do a better version of it and
17:36
I got that funding.
17:39
So, it's been a huge impact for me.
17:41
Go find problems, don't wait.
17:46
Step 2, it kind of it kind of
implies a little bit with step 1,
17:49
like learn to influence without authority.
17:53
This is everything.
17:56
So software is software, yes,
but it is people always.
17:57
You don't have to always be an expert.
18:01
But if you can get an expert to trust you,
they'll come with you on your journey.
18:04
And it's better than you being the expert.
18:10
So a lot of organizations
are super matrixed.
18:13
If you work for these big companies like
right now I'm in a product management
18:17
kind of silo you get in it's not right.
18:20
It feels like a silo sometimes but
it's this portion of the business, right?
18:22
So I'm in product, I own strategy I own
vision, I own customer relationships.
18:28
But I also need to partner with
my engineering counterparts.
18:34
I need to partner with
design counterparts,
18:37
with communications, marketing,
legal, all these things, right?
18:39
So nobody reports to me.
18:44
We all have to come together in
order to execute on a project.
18:46
But I'm nobody's boss.
18:51
And they don't have to listen to me.
18:53
They have their own hierarchy and
their own structure of authority.
18:55
So how do you get people to work together?
19:00
They don't have to.
19:02
This is the key to everything.
19:03
You bring people along with you,
you can accomplish anything.
19:05
And so the question is, how do you do it?
19:08
All these people they have their own
roadmaps, you've got your roadmap,
19:10
how do you get everyone to work together?
19:13
The answer is very simple actually.
19:15
Emotional intelligence is
the buzzword you might hear.
19:17
But the answer is help them first.
19:20
You help people first they will help you.
19:24
You care about their career,
their roadmap, their objectives, first.
19:27
You build those relationships,
you understand where they're coming from,
19:31
understand what keeps them up at night.
19:36
Can you help them?
19:39
You talk to many people,
you connect the dots.
19:40
Eric's doing this,
Beth is doing something similar,
19:43
maybe you guys could work together and
do it together?
19:46
Can you collaborate across the company,
build strong relationships, and
19:49
help other people?
19:52
You do that first and when it comes
to your roadmap, they'll help you.
19:54
This is servant leadership.
19:59
Beside you.
20:02
All right, step three, customer focus.
20:04
This kind of goes back to what
I was saying earlier, right?
20:06
Deliver value to your customer, whoever
your end benefactor of your service is,
20:09
make sure they're getting their value.
20:14
Talk to them, know them.
20:16
Yes, you should care about
the relationship with your boss, but
20:19
if your boss is a good one, they also
care very much about their customer.
20:22
And if they don't,
you might need a new boss.
20:26
You can be aggressive without being rude.
20:30
I'm a strong believer in showing
passion without being a jerk,
20:32
you don't have to be a jerk, right?
20:37
Build relationships, care about people.
20:39
You want them to understand, you make sure
they feel heard and understood first.
20:42
If you do that, they'll trust you.
20:49
They'll actually care
about your experience.
20:52
Now, I put this little footnote here but
I think this is super important,
20:56
I kind of mentioned this earlier.
20:58
Don't pursue promotions, pursue growth.
21:00
A lot of times, people will make
decisions because they are trying to get
21:04
a promotion, and I get it.
21:08
But pursue value, pursue growth,
the promotions will come.
21:10
And if they don't come, promote yourself.
21:16
Don't be afraid to leave
the organization that you're with.
21:18
Every time I changed positions,
I got anywhere from 15 to 30% raise,
21:23
which for me ended up being 100k plus,
every move.
21:29
So between Microsoft,
Salesforce, Twitter, and
21:36
another fantastic announcement I've
got next week, my compensation has
21:39
gone up at least $100,000 every
single time and I'm being modest.
21:44
So the cap in tech is a lot
higher than you think.
21:50
You can be much more successful
than you might realize.
21:55
So I'm gonna add that in there.
22:01
So and this is not even about money,
right,
22:02
this is about financial independence.
22:06
it trickles down into everything in life,
from the decisions you make,
22:09
from taking care of your family,
to the choices and
22:13
flexibility you have in your life,
it matters.
22:16
All right,
everybody can still hear me okay?
22:21
Everything's good?
22:25
Cool, okay, power brands, man.
22:28
Talk about the most
overlooked thing you can do.
22:32
Your personal brand and
your company's brand impact you,
22:34
your career more than anything else.
22:39
I'm gonna talk a little bit about what
this means, but man, I'm telling you,
22:45
this is talk about
the most overlooked thing.
22:48
So first, let's talk about personal brand.
22:51
I don't apply for jobs because recruiters
and hiring managers find me on LinkedIn.
22:54
I haven't applied for
job in at least eight years.
22:59
My Twitter role,
my Microsoft offers, got call for
23:02
LinkedIn all the time, Facebook, Google,
23:07
Amazon, Netflix,
they contact me regularly.
23:11
And when a recruiter or hiring manager
contacts you from LinkedIn, you're not
23:16
applying, they've already, most of the
time, already shared your information with
23:20
the hiring manager, or they are the hiring
manager, and you go straight to interview.
23:24
So this is what I mean
by not applying online.
23:29
I don't apply where 500 other people have
already applied hoping that they see my
23:31
resume.
23:36
They come and get me, and
that changes the conversation.
23:37
Use LinkedIn.
23:42
800 million people are on LinkedIn,
only 1% of those people post.
23:43
So just by posting anything,
you become part of that 1%.
23:50
Cuz sometimes it's not about being
qualified, many people that apply for
23:55
roles you are qualified,
you're just not seen.
24:00
Nobody knows who you are.
24:03
You're 1 of 1,000 qualified candidates,
how do you stand out?
24:06
LinkedIn is a way that you stand out,
24:10
even though only 1% of people post,
a lot of people browse.
24:13
A lot of the hiring managers,
teammates, and
24:17
recruiters that you wanna work
with are on LinkedIn regularly.
24:20
So posts, you don't have to educate
people, just share your journey.
24:26
Tell them how crappy your day was.
24:30
You were coding something and
screwed something up, and
24:32
you're just dealing with, what will
happen is people will resonate with you.
24:35
They'll say, you know what,
I know what that feels like.
24:40
They'll like your posts,
they'll follow you.
24:43
LinkedIn is not like Facebook, okay?
24:45
LinkedIn is your online resume.
24:47
Who do you want to see your online resume?
24:49
I want everyone to see mine,
so connect with everyone.
24:52
Make sure you turn your settings on so
anyone can follow you.
24:56
The more people that see you,
the more opportunity you potentially have.
24:59
So create a brand on LinkedIn.
25:05
[INAUDIBLE] The Xbox offer.
25:09
The hiring manager saw me on LinkedIn,
he liked my posts.
25:11
It's a way to show the hiring world
you're more than just a flat resume,
25:15
you're a person.
25:19
Comment on other people's posts,
talk about what you like.
25:21
If you see somebody say something that
really resonates with you, say that.
25:24
You're telling future teammates and
colleagues what you're all about.
25:29
It's a great way to expand
your personal brand.
25:34
Now company brand.
25:36
This is another thing I
think is super overlooked.
25:37
Now, working for the right company,
25:40
even temporarily can skyrocket career.
25:43
Now, I'll tell you why.
25:47
Hiring is hard.
25:50
The interview process is difficult.
25:53
How do you determine
somebody's future value?
25:56
By asking them a bunch of random
questions and putting them on the spot.
25:59
Everybody is different as
far as how they handle that,
26:03
you can't measure future success that way.
26:06
Interviewing is hard.
26:08
So what do big tech companies do?
26:10
They let someone else
do the heavy lifting.
26:13
And what that means is they hire
people from other big tech companies.
26:15
Cuz they make the assumption that if
this person made it at Microsoft for
26:19
a few years, or Salesforce, or
Google, they're probably pretty good.
26:23
So, I am assuming that Microsoft
already did their due diligence, and
26:29
Microsoft liked them, and
they seem to do pretty well,
26:32
they're probably pretty good in my,
they'll be be good in my role too.
26:35
Big tech companies love to hire
from other big tech companies.
26:39
So, what does that mean?
26:45
So when I worked at Expedia,
26:46
that was actually the door that
opened up Microsoft to me.
26:47
Cuz Microsoft knew about Expedia,
Expedia was a brand name, so
26:50
Microsoft was giving me a trial.
26:55
Like, okay, Expedia is a good company,
well, maybe Jay's pretty good.
26:57
When I got into Microsoft, all of
a sudden, everyone started looking at me.
27:01
I started getting hit up by everyone,
I'm not even exaggerating,
27:04
pretty regularly, especially Amazon.
27:08
And so I was getting calls and
offers to interview monthly,
27:11
still, and it hasn't stopped.
27:17
Microsoft opened the door to Salesforce.
27:20
Salesforce opened the door to Twitter.
27:22
Twitter open the door
to any other company.
27:24
Once your resume gets the right brands,
27:27
everyone just assumes that
you must be pretty good.
27:30
I'd like to think that I'm decent, but
27:35
they assume that all these other companies
have already done the heavy lifting.
27:37
Jay's been successful in these places,
he must be good enough for us.
27:41
Now, even if you don't love this,
right, you don't love working for
27:44
a big tech company,
cuz there's pros and cons, right?
27:48
It's still worth going for
a little while because of this effect.
27:52
Cuz as you navigate your career and
27:55
you kind of figure out where you really
wanna be, you get to be employed.
27:57
You get to be in demand.
28:02
I never have to worry about getting a job.
28:04
I always have at least two or three people
that are interested at any given time.
28:07
Okay, so and
this is also what I mean by autopilot,
28:12
I don't worry about my next career move.
28:15
I just have to decide
where I would like to go.
28:17
Okay, step five, learn what matters.
28:21
Now again, this goes back to
doing what's in demand and
28:25
catering to your strengths,
what I said earlier, right?
28:29
Pay attention,
how do you know what companies want?
28:34
It's actually a very simple way.
28:36
What are they hiring for?
28:37
Go look at job posts.
28:39
That'll tell you what's
in demand right there.
28:40
You can also google, I mean,
this is the age of the Internet.
28:42
Come on, you can find out what's hot in
the industry, very, very easy, right?
28:45
Find out what's in demand.
28:50
Make sure you understand
what's happening in the world.
28:52
Now, again, brand over role.
28:54
What I mean by that is sometimes if
you have an opportunity, let's say
28:59
to go work for Microsoft, but maybe
it's not the role that you really want.
29:02
Chances are if you've
never done these roles,
29:07
you really don't know what you like or
you don't like, really, right?
29:08
So sometimes,
it's okay to get in to a good brand, and
29:11
then move around within the company.
29:14
I did that at Expedia,
Microsoft, and Salesforce.
29:17
I got into a job that I was qualified for
and I liked the job.
29:20
But then eventually as I
got to know the company,
29:23
got to network,
meet people around the company,
29:26
I transitioned to another position
within the company that I enjoy.
29:29
Once you get in, it's actually very
easy to move around, talk to people,
29:33
network, build relationships, and
29:37
go find the job that you really want,
or go explore, right?
29:40
Go see what you like and
what you don't like.
29:44
So once you get in,
super easy to move around.
29:48
If you're not sure, you're intact,
and you're not sure what to do, or
29:50
you're not sure what to think
about as far as direction.
29:53
Personally, I would say product and
program management are hot.
29:57
They require a lot of communication
skills, a lot of people collaboration,
30:01
marketing, customer service like a lot
of transferable skills and program and
30:05
product management.
30:10
Data is always hot regardless of
where you wanna be in the stack,
30:12
whether you wanna be a data scientist,
data engineer, or product manager,
30:15
product analyst, data is everywhere.
30:19
So having fundamental knowledge
in data is super important.
30:22
It is the lifeblood,
it is the new oil of business, right?
30:25
Data is always awesome.
30:29
Cloud technologies is always awesome too.
30:30
Cloud computing, GCP, AWS,
Azure, Cloud Fundamentals,
30:33
every company is on some type of roadmap,
a journey in their cloud strategy.
30:38
Whether they have their own data centers
or they're adopting public cloud services,
30:45
like the ones I mentioned,
cloud is also awesome to learn.
30:49
So if you're not sure, those are some
things that I think I would suggest.
30:52
And of course, software engineering,
software engineering is awesome but
30:56
it's not necessarily for everyone.
30:59
So remember that you don't have to code,
I don't code and I do very well.
31:01
I'm a people person.
31:06
So if you're a people person,
there's room and space for you too.
31:07
Relationships are more
important than anything.
31:13
Build relationships,
not only networking but
31:16
also when you get a job within the job,
network, get to know people, right?
31:19
All right.
31:24
Step 6, get the right type of experience.
31:26
So if you're having trouble landing a job,
hire yourself.
31:31
Go spend $100 for a business license and
go start a business.
31:35
That is real, your experience is real.
31:43
It is exactly what I did.
31:45
I was not qualified.
31:46
if I was waiting to be qualified,
that's such a subjective term.
31:47
All you have to do is no more
than the person you're serving.
31:53
And many of you probably already do.
31:56
It just means that maybe
you only serve people,
31:59
again with less knowledge than you and
that's okay, right?
32:01
Hire yourself.
32:05
If you wanna be a product manager,
go build a product.
32:06
If you want to be a software engineer,
go build software.
32:10
Because the cool thing about that
is you're building your experience.
32:13
The difference between somebody that's
educated versus somebody that's
32:17
experienced is your mistakes.
32:21
Go fail.
32:23
Go learn.
32:23
Go screw up.
32:25
Go make mistakes.
32:26
Try it again.
32:27
Struggle through it.
32:28
Learn all the ups and downs,
that's what experience feels like.
32:29
Go do it.
32:32
You have no excuse not to build
your portfolio right now.
32:33
And even on the portfolio aspect, right?
32:38
A lot of people will spend a lot
of time to building a portfolio.
32:42
What's the difference between building
a portfolio and running a business?
32:45
The difference is a business license.
32:50
Yes, go build your project, but build it
with the intent of selling something and
32:52
go get a business license.
32:57
Now it's not a side project,
it is a business and
33:00
you are the position
you designate yourself.
33:03
That experience is real,
it counts, go do it.
33:06
There are no excuses not in today's world.
33:09
With cloud computing strategies, you can
build auto scaling architectures as a one
33:12
person if you understand how
to use the technology and
33:16
most of that information is free.
33:19
Or reasonably priced like Treehouse,
right?
33:21
Like I learned JavaScript from Treehouse.
33:24
There's so much out there, you just have
to have the determination to go learn it.
33:27
The opportunity is there.
33:32
And if nothing else,
let's say you just do a bunch of stuff and
33:34
it doesn't become anything,
that's okay too.
33:36
Because the number one in every question
that you're gonna get is tell me a time
33:39
when you failed and
you'll have a lot to talk about.
33:42
And that's a good thing.
33:44
If you failed, then you won't make those
same mistakes when you work for them.
33:46
That's an experienced person, it matters.
33:51
And like I said, if you're not seeing
the progression in your current company,
33:55
don't be afraid to look elsewhere.
33:59
I told you about my growth,
lateral growth is still growth.
34:02
Aggressively pursue growth.
34:05
Don't look for a 40 year career,
work for ten and retire.
34:08
And don't retire.
34:14
Just be financially independent and
do whatever you want.
34:15
Don't look for comfort, look for growth.
34:18
All right, and then the last part, I hate
this, one of these days I'm gonna try to
34:23
like disrupt tech, maybe with this but
there is a process to the interview.
34:27
It isn't a grueling and
difficult and frustrating process.
34:31
But the good thing is,
if you just Google it,
34:36
you can find every question ever
asked in every typical interview.
34:38
I've been a hiring manager for every
company that I've mentioned Microsoft,
34:42
Salesforce, Twitter, Expedia,
we ask the same questions.
34:47
Even the answers are researchable,
34:51
which is why the whole process
I think is a little ridiculous.
34:53
If you're a very studious
person you can pass this.
34:56
So go do the research.
35:01
But I would say on top of this is not
just do the research, believe it.
35:02
Don't just answer a question, right?
35:07
Like if you were a product
lead the last year,
35:09
tell me a time when you took a product
from ideation all the way to launch.
35:12
Don't like practice your answer.
35:18
Go do that.
35:21
[LAUGH] Go do it.
35:22
Go take a product from ideation to lunch.
35:24
What did you do?
35:27
Why did you make those choices?
35:27
What could you have done?
35:29
Can you connect with other
product managers on LinkedIn?
35:30
Ask for coffee chats, don't ask for
favors, ask for coffee chats,
35:34
get some advice from them.
35:37
What did they do?
35:39
Go build your product so that when you
do have that interview question you're
35:40
talking all from experience.
35:44
You're not answering a question
because you researched it online.
35:45
You can talk from experience,
this is what you did do.
35:49
This is what you would do differently,
right?
35:52
So, understand what that process is,
it's not hard to find online.
35:56
All right, so
here's my special invitation and request.
36:01
So please join
the MentorMesh.io community.
36:05
We've got 1,300 people just
like you learning, self-paced,
36:09
doing work, connecting.
36:14
If you're a product manager and you
need software engineers, they're there.
36:16
Go build something together.
36:20
If you're a software engineer but
you want something to build,
36:21
there's product managers there.
36:24
Come find us, come chat with us,
it's all free, come check it out.
36:25
If you learned anything on this,
remember I told you to post on LinkedIn.
36:29
A lot of people are like,
I don't even know what to post.
36:32
Well, if you learned anything
just post about that.
36:35
Just post, tag me in there.
36:39
Say, hey, I was listening to Jae's talk,
he said this,
36:40
this really resonated with me,
I just wanted to share.
36:43
Why do you do that?
36:47
To be seen, simply to be seen.
36:48
If somebody else can benefit from
something you learned, share.
36:51
That's what LinkedIn should be for.
36:54
Share knowledge, help each other grow,
let's up level together, right?
36:56
And start posting regularly.
37:00
Just talk about what's going on in your
business journey, your career journey,
37:01
things that you're learning, just share.
37:05
If you share, people will care.
37:07
They'll care about you, they'll pay
attention to you, they'll like your posts.
37:11
If you post to me, I will,
excuse me, if you tagged me,
37:15
I'll comment on your posts,
which means my followers will see you.
37:18
They will also start to notice
who you are as well, right?
37:22
Over time, if you're consistent
people will start to follow you.
37:25
Within MentorMesh I've worked with many
people, and they've gained thousands of
37:28
followers within a few months
because of what I'm suggesting.
37:33
I also run accelerator programs for those
of you that wanna go a little bit faster.
37:37
I do a lot more one on one mentorship,
a lot more training.
37:41
You guys are welcome to check that out,
MentorMesh.io.
37:45
But #mentormesh, tag me, I'll comment,
I'll help you on that journey.
37:48
People that know me I give a lot of time,
this is my passion.
37:53
I want you guys to succeed.
37:58
Okay, we are at Q&A.
38:02
I am gonna stop sharing my screen so
you guys can see my cool Grit poster.
38:05
Okay, looks like there's a Q&A section, so
let me see what I can answer for you guys.
38:12
I don't know how long the session is.
38:17
I think I have at least five minutes.
38:19
Okay, so first question, any tips
moving from a small to a large company?
38:23
So what I did was I took a contract role.
38:29
So number one thing I think you should
do is work on your personal brand.
38:32
Your LinkedIn profile is your resume,
it is how people find you.
38:39
It's more important than your resume.
38:46
So keep your LinkedIn profile updated.
38:49
Your top three skills all your
searchable because remember,
38:51
recruiters are searching for you.
38:53
So make sure your keywords relate to
the type of job that you want, okay?
38:55
Get your LinkedIn profile updated,
people will start finding you.
38:59
Now the number one way to get to a big
company in my opinion, my experience,
39:04
is to take a contract role if
you have the ability to do that.
39:07
Take a three-month contract,
six-month contract.
39:10
Why is that awesome?
39:13
Because you get to work for
these big tech companies,
39:14
the bar is super low because they're just
trying to hire somebody fast, right?
39:17
It's way easier than going
through the normal route.
39:20
But it's like a try it before you buy it,
go in there kick butts,
39:23
there's a large opportunity for
you to be hired on.
39:27
That's how I got my first gig.
39:31
I know many,
many people have gone that way too.
39:33
You get to network, meet people,
show them your worth.
39:35
They have the ability to hire you.
39:39
And a lot of these companies
it's not about money.
39:42
Do they have money?
39:45
Of course they have money.
39:47
These are millions and
billion dollar company.
39:48
They need to make you a priority though.
39:51
How do you show your value so that they
are willing to find money for you?
39:53
Alright, let's see here what I got.
39:59
Talk about what skills you have
that earn you the most money.
40:06
My people, skills,
it's not my tech skills.
40:10
And you know what's
interesting about that?
40:12
I'm in a very technical domain.
40:15
I'm a platform developer experience,
which means I need to work with engineers.
40:17
My customers are the most
technical audience.
40:21
My job is to make their life easier.
40:24
Yet that's not where my value is.
40:28
My value is listening, understanding their
problems, taking that information and
40:31
sharing it with the people
that can make the impact.
40:36
Getting collaboration across the company,
being empathetic.
40:39
Drawing collaboration and
correlation between teams,
40:42
getting them to work together.
40:45
That is everything.
40:47
Even as a software engineer,
you might think, well,
40:49
I need to be a fantastic coder?
40:51
Sure, I agree with you.
40:53
If that's what you do for a living,
you should be pretty good.
40:54
But imagine instead of just doing what
you're told, you started asking why.
40:57
And you started building relationships.
41:02
And not only were you building fantastic
software, you knew the business.
41:04
You knew the people that were
requesting the change and
41:08
you helped understand the problem.
41:10
So that when they asked for
something unknowingly that made no sense,
41:12
you asked them intelligent questions
to get them to make the right decision.
41:16
Or actually worked with them,
collaboratively, right?
41:20
How much more valuable you are.
41:25
If you ever plan on being senior or
principal, that is what you do.
41:27
Your job is not to take orders.
41:30
Your job is to ask questions and
make sure we're doing the right thing.
41:32
Start that now.
41:35
That's people [INAUDIBLE].
41:35
All right, when starting on tech
without previous experience,
41:37
how did you get past the online
application process?
41:42
I didn't apply online,
I started my own company.
41:46
So, if you don't have your first
tech job and you're looking for
41:50
your first tech job, start a company,
go get a business license.
41:54
What do you wanna be dig-scientist?
41:59
Go start a dig-science company.
42:00
Good start building models.
42:02
Try to people to do free work for, maybe.
42:03
Cuz this is about experience, and
42:07
then you are now founder of your
own data analytics company.
42:10
It is that simple.
42:17
And as you do more work,
maybe there's a tool you wanna build,
42:18
go find engineers that
wanna build it with you.
42:22
Be one of the engineers that built it,
right?
42:25
As you do that work,
42:28
your experience level starts to go up
because you're gaining experience.
42:29
You put it on your resume.
42:33
That is what you are.
42:35
Again, even in my early days
recruiters would find me on LinkedIn.
42:37
So, care about your personal brand,
care about how you show up online.
42:41
They will come to you.
42:45
There are so many jobs there.
42:46
At Twitter, I'm gonna hire two
to ten people, just pre-empts.
42:50
The organization that I support,
is gonna hire like 30 to 50 engineers.
42:55
Twitter is an example of a company
that's gonna double in size in
42:59
the next two years.
43:01
There are so many jobs out there.
43:03
I agree that maybe your first one
can be your most difficult one.
43:05
Totally get that, but this is why I
suggest starting your own company,
43:09
work with other people, gain experience
and they'll start calling you.
43:14
All right, let's see whatever,
any book recommendations?
43:19
If you're into product management,
which is obviously my domain.
43:25
Insight, by Marty Kagan, is really good.
43:30
Measure What Matters, is another book
that talks about OKRs, which is a kind of
43:35
a measuring, kind of strategic system
that you use in a lot of big companies.
43:40
So, OKRs, so, Measure What Matters,
is that book.
43:45
Marty Kagan's Inspires, excuse me,
I may have said Insight.
43:50
Those are kind of the, and then
Crucial Conversations, is another book.
43:55
When you're talking about
dealing with conflict and
44:01
talking to people and
being empathetic, really good book.
44:05
How much or hard did you have to work per
week when you first began, hire yourself?
44:09
I was burning it, both ends of the candle,
not gonna lie to you.
44:16
When I was working that job,
44:20
I was doing it at night while I was having
my state job until I got to a place
44:22
where I was making enough money that I
could comfortably quit my state job.
44:27
But there was a period where I was
burning it at both ends of the candle.
44:32
But yeah, you wanna progress fast,
you got to put the work in.
44:36
It is worth it cuz I got here,
and now I don't have to do that.
44:41
And I've been here for a while, actually.
44:47
I did that before Expedia,
but once I got to Expedia,
44:49
I could work a regular work week and
I have ultimate flexibility.
44:53
So, totally worth it.
44:57
Very, very doable,
you just gotta put the work in.
44:59
Let's see.
45:01
What kind of soft skills do you recommend
is required to carry as a product manager?
45:07
So, I mentioned a lot about interpersonal
stuff, right, like talking to people,
45:12
communication, right, empathy.
45:15
It's super important.
45:17
But ask good questions.
45:19
That's good, not only for
product management, but everyone,
45:20
do your research, right?
45:23
Don't ask blind questions where it
sounds like you're just being lazy,
45:24
because you don't want to do the research.
45:27
That's not what I mean.
45:28
That's just being lazy.
45:29
Go do the research.
45:30
know as much as you can,
ask intelligent questions.
45:31
Ask insightful questions and don't be
afraid to ask, why are we doing this?
45:35
That's your value.
45:42
There's a lot of people that
can just do what they're told.
45:43
But if you can ask questions that
provoke thinking, that's a huge value.
45:47
All right.
45:56
Let me see what other questions.
45:57
Lets see.
46:01
Why is experience so important?
46:07
I think in general, so
think of it this way.
46:11
As an employer,
46:14
I wanna pay you a whole lot of money,
especially if you're in tech, right?
46:15
I just want some assurances,
46:19
something that makes me trust that
you can do this job well, anything.
46:21
That's what all this stuff is, bachelor's
degrees, MBAs, experience certifications.
46:25
We're trying to build a case to trust you,
46:32
can I trust this person that when I hire
them, they're going to do a good job?
46:34
Because once I hire them, there's all
these laws, depending on the countries
46:39
that you're in, I might be stuck
with you for a little while, right?
46:42
So as the employers,
just give me a reason to trust you, right?
46:46
So, experience is one of those factors.
46:50
If I can talk to the mistakes that I've
made, if I can talk to times when I've
46:52
done things and I can give you examples,
that helps earn trust with your employer.
46:55
They're like, okay,
this person has done this before, so
46:59
they can probably do it for me.
47:03
But at the same time,
experience just means, go out and do it.
47:07
Don't think that that means go like you
have to have worked for a big company.
47:11
I think Mark Zuckerberg obviously proved
that you don't even need that kind of
47:14
experience, right?
47:17
He built Facebook, he had no experience.
47:18
All right, let's see Okay,
47:22
when starting out in tech industry
without previous experience,
47:29
how does one get past the online?
47:32
Okay, I think I answered that already.
47:33
Okay, do you have any insight on how to
get past the no experience barrier and
47:36
lack of entry level or Junior depositions?
47:41
Having a hard time
bridging from boot camp.
47:43
Man, I tell you.
47:46
[LAUGH] So, if you come to my community,
mention Nester
47:47
you're gonna see a lot of boot
camp grads for the same reason.
47:51
Because it's hard, man it's hard.
47:55
This is what I'm telling you,
47:57
that the number one thing you can
do is start your own business.
47:58
It's what I did, it's what I can speak to,
its what worked for me.
48:00
A lot of companies will
hesitate hiring you.
48:05
Now, what I will tell you is
that every role that I have,
48:08
if you follow me on LinkedIn,
I'm gonna try to help with this.
48:10
Because there are millions of
mid-level jobs and senior jobs,
48:15
just not enough entry level jobs.
48:18
And I'm gonna try my best as I
continue to grow in my career,
48:21
to open opportunities for you.
48:24
There's apprenticeship programs,
there's internship programs.
48:26
Apprenticeship is great because it's
you don't have to be an intern.
48:29
It's basically a try before you buy kinda
deal where you work for a company for
48:33
like a year and they have the option
of hiring you at the end of it.
48:37
I'm gonna personally try
to do a lot of them,
48:40
those types of programs for
every company that I work.
48:43
So, I'm gonna try to help there.
48:46
But my number one suggestion,
you gotta go do the work.
48:47
Just go start a company.
48:52
[COUGH] Stop thinking you have
to create Facebook or Instagram.
48:53
Just go do anything,
that experience counts.
48:59
You do that for a while,
try to make some money.
49:02
It counts and it'll help you bridge
that gap between no experience and
49:06
your first entry level
job that wants two years.
49:10
But what I will say is that,
this is a career decision.
49:14
If anybody tells you, learn coding
in three months and get a job, okay?
49:18
Sometimes that happens, usually it's
because they know somebody, but for
49:23
the most of us, it's hard work,
it's consistency, it's grit.
49:27
You gotta keep going.
49:32
But once you hit that first barrier and
you're able to kinda get past it,
49:33
totally worth it.
49:37
Job opportunities start to open up because
again, that mid level area, is full.
49:38
We need so many people.
49:43
But yeah, that's my suggestion.
49:45
Take contract jobs, right?
49:48
Keep your LinkedIn profile updated, take
contract jobs, start your own company.
49:50
You want help and advice on that?
49:56
Come join Mentor Master IO.
49:57
I talk a lot about what I did.
49:59
I can't really talk about other ways,
because I don't know those other ways.
50:02
These are my ways.
50:05
This is what worked for me.
50:06
But what I can say is that I
have passed most people in tech.
50:07
And I've gotten to a level
that most people never see.
50:11
And these are the things that worked for
me.
50:14
And I was an office assistant and
it was not my first job.
50:16
I was in my late 20s when I really
started kicking butt in tech.
50:19
So it wasn't my first job.
50:23
I wasn't a fresh college grad,
second career.
50:24
Okay, so
I don't know how much time I have.
50:32
Maybe I have like five minutes or
eight minutes.
50:37
I don't know if this was 45 minutes.
50:40
[LAUGH]
>> Hey Dave, yeah,
50:42
you can go ahead and answer a couple more
questions if you see some coming in.
50:46
>> Okay, all right, I will do that.
50:50
What was the hardest struggle in your
career and how do you overcome it?
50:54
So I think that keep in
mind the path that I am
50:59
talking about,
it takes a lot of perseverance.
51:04
There's always gonna be people that
oppose you, haters if you will, always.
51:09
Every job there's gonna be
people like who is this guy?
51:17
This girl is not qualified.
51:21
Why are they even here?
51:23
Yeah, but that's what happens
when you act above average,
51:24
average people don't like you.
51:32
That's just the way that it is.
51:38
But what do you do when you experienced
that type of opposition, right?
51:40
Does imposter syndrome set in?
51:45
Yeah, it might.
51:47
I experience that still sometimes.
51:49
Imposter syndrome means growth.
51:52
So remember that if you
feel uncomfortable,
51:53
it means that you're growing.
51:55
Growth is uncomfortable.
51:56
If you're comfortable,
it means you're not growing and
51:58
those type of people get laid off.
52:01
Those type of companies go
out of business, right?
52:03
So there's always gonna
be people that hate you.
52:08
You may doubt yourself, but
what do you do when that happens?
52:10
Cuz it will happen.
52:16
Do you identify what makes you feel
insecure and take steps to feel better?
52:19
Do you go forward anyway?
52:24
Are you no longer afraid to fail?
52:27
Are you okay and accept the fact that
failure is growth, but you go anyway?
52:30
What do you do?
52:37
That's, I think,
one of the biggest things.
52:38
When things get difficult do you say,
52:40
I'm never gonna get a job cuz are there
even any job, like don't do that.
52:42
I get it, we all feel that way.
52:48
But what I'll tell you is
it's a fantastic industry.
52:50
There are millions of jobs and
yes you can fit.
52:53
But you have to make the choice that
when times get difficult, cuz they will,
52:56
what are you gonna do?
53:00
If you feel insecure about your
technical expertise, go get technical.
53:02
Go build relationships,
go network, go fill that void.
53:05
If somebody says that you're not
qualified, do you just accept that?
53:10
I'll tell you, I've worked for some of
the most top companies in the world.
53:16
They're not all like rocket
scientists in there, not even close.
53:22
They're all regular people.
53:25
If you out work them,
you will be successful.
53:28
Maybe some people get these jobs
because they are brilliant.
53:34
They're definitely a handful
of folks that are here because
53:36
they're brilliant, but
most people are lazy.
53:41
Maybe you feel like you're not brilliant.
53:44
I can never figure, yes you can.
53:46
First off, yes you can.
53:47
And second off,
outwork them, outwork them.
53:49
Put the work in, do the research,
the information is free for you or
53:55
really cheap.
53:59
Go commit yourself,
say this is a priority for you.
54:01
And no matter what, stay consistent.
54:05
That is the hardest struggle, I think,
especially in the tech industry,
54:09
I think it's easy to get frustrated
because certain things aren't explained
54:12
really well.
54:16
And so
you have to kind of motivate yourself.
54:17
But this is one of the reasons
why I created Metternich.
54:19
Sometimes when you have really
difficult times like that you need
54:23
community support.
54:26
You need people to tell you,
remind you that you can do it, right?
54:26
You need people to ask questions,
to bounce ideas off of.
54:31
That's what we have.
54:36
So definitely encourage
you to check that out.
54:38
Let's see, I think I got time maybe for
one more question.
54:42
Working along people with degrees,
do they give you a hard time or
54:53
make you feel that you aren't right for
the job?
54:57
Well, here's the interesting thing.
54:59
They never ask.
55:01
Most people actually just assume
that I have a bachelor's degree.
55:03
And if it ever comes up,
they are a little shocked.
55:08
But think about this though.
55:10
I think it says something about a person.
55:14
Think of it this way, no matter what you
do in your career, you have to build it.
55:20
Whether you have a degree or
not, you have to build it.
55:25
Let's say you're building a house,
let's say,
55:27
I don't think this is a perfect analogy.
55:31
So just bear with me.
55:33
Let's say having a degree, credentials,
55:34
all those things are like having
power tools when you build a house.
55:37
It's still pretty impressive
to build that house, but
55:40
what if I told you I built the same
house and I had no power tools?
55:42
I used a regular hammer.
55:45
And I actually had to screw
in every single nail.
55:47
But I built the same house.
55:51
Do you look at me and
say why didn't you get a power tool?
55:54
You might say that.
55:59
And I'd give you my reasons,
I couldn't make it to the store.
56:00
I don't know, I didn't have money maybe.
56:04
But aren't you a little
bit more impressed though?
56:05
And you kinda look at my forearms,
you're like, dang, that dude must have,
56:08
cuz he was, right?
56:12
So to me,
I wear it kind of like a badge of pride.
56:14
I get it,
56:20
there are a lot of things you can do
that will make your transition easier.
56:21
I am not suggesting the easiest way.
56:26
I am suggesting that if you put the work
in, regardless of what credentials you
56:29
have, number one, it's not the most
important thing to build your career.
56:33
But you just have to make a choice.
56:39
There's power in choice.
56:40
Power and persistence, right?
56:43
That's kind of my message.
56:46
It doesn't matter if you have a degree or
not, depending on the company you work
56:47
for, it may or may not matter, but the top
companies in the world don't require it.
56:50
And why is that?
56:53
Because at the end of the day,
they just need skilled people.
56:54
They need to be able to trust that
you're gonna do a job, do a good job.
56:56
There's a lot of ways to figure that out,
right?
56:59
But my main message is
aggressively pursue growth.
57:03
Success is a choice.
57:07
I gave you the seven steps,
love to share more with you.
57:09
But I think that's all my questions,
most of them anyway.
57:13
If you have more, feel free to hit me
up on LinkedIn, follow me on LinkedIn.
57:16
Love to talk to you there or
come join the community.
57:21
But yeah, really,
really happy to talk with you folks today.
57:24
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