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Hour With a Tech Recruiter: Karina Macias Sandoval
49:53 with Ryan CarsonWelcome to Hour with a Tech Recruiter. In this live event, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson will facilitate a conversation with Karina Macias Sandoval, who leads Recruiting and Talent Operations at Nova Credit. Ryan and Karina will discuss practical tips for folks looking to stand out to recruiters and land a job in tech.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
All right, hello everyone and
welcome to Hour with a Tech Recruiter.
0:03
My name is Ryan Carson, and
I'm the founder and CEO of Treehouse.
0:10
I absolutely love hosting these events and
I'm so
0:14
excited to be here with you all today.
0:17
Before we start, I'd like to
recognize that there is a lot of work
0:20
to do that needs to be done to make
tech way more inclusive and equitable.
0:25
A 2020 study showed that
more often than not,
0:31
women engineers are outnumbered by
a ratio of five to one or more.
0:35
56% of women surveyed in this study
said they are only in meetings
0:40
with other women sometimes,
and almost none of the time.
0:46
In 2019,
57% of the workforce was women, yet
0:50
they remain underrepresented
in engineering roles.
0:55
This is just one example of the employment
disparity that is so rife in tech.
0:59
The industry is long overdue for
a change and
1:06
we believe there's room for
everyone at the table.
1:09
At Treehouse, we are taking steps toward
making the industry more inclusive.
1:13
We wanna empower underrepresented
communities to succeed in tech,
1:18
while challenging the industry to improve.
1:22
We believe there is place in tech for
everyone to thrive,
1:25
especially as their most authentic self.
1:29
If you'd like to know more about our
commitment to equity, diversity, and
1:32
inclusion, please visit
teamtreehouse.com>/about.
1:36
Another quick note, there are thousands
of Treehouse students that
1:40
are now taking part in 100
Days of Code challenge.
1:45
You can transform your life by committing
to learning for just 30 minutes a day for
1:48
100 days.
1:53
You'll have the support of
the whole Treehouse community
1:54
of students working right by your side.
1:57
Just head to
teamtreehouse.com>/100daysofcode,
1:59
start your challenge.
2:03
Another quick note before we begin,
2:05
I would like to mention that there
is a code of conduct for this event.
2:07
It's supposed to be in reception.
2:10
Please take just a minute to review that,
and
2:12
know that we take that very seriously for
these events.
2:14
There's also live captioning, and
2:18
the link is provided in reception,
as well in the chat.
2:21
I'm now really happy to present
today Karina Macias Sandoval
2:25
as the guest speaker for this session
of Hour with a Tech Recruiter.
2:29
Karina is a first generation
college graduate from St.
2:34
Mary's College of California, and
holds a Bachelor of Arts in Communication.
2:37
She currently works at Nova Credit, a
startup helping immigrants transfer their
2:42
credit history into the US, where she
runs recruiting and talent operations.
2:48
Prior to Nova Credit, she worked in
university recruiting at Genentech.
2:53
Throughout her college career, she
interned with various tech and nonprofit
2:59
organizations, including Hewlett-Packard,
Silicon Valley, Social Venture Fund,
3:04
HIP housing, and community legal
services in East Palo Alto.
3:09
Everyone, please Karina
give a big welcome.
3:13
Good to have you.
3:15
>> Hi, thank you for
having me, I'm [INAUDIBLE].
3:17
>> Yeah, thanks for stopping by.
3:19
I'm gonna click into the stage chat.
3:21
Hello everyone that's here.
3:24
Kaja, good to see you.
3:27
Thompson, Kim, Ryan,
always good to see you.
3:29
Natasha, good to see y'all.
3:33
So we're gonna get started with just
a couple of questions for Karina.
3:36
But I just wanna remind everybody
that we're gonna try to
3:41
answer as many questions as we can.
3:45
Karina is the boss.
3:48
She knows a ton of things.
3:50
And so,
please pop your questions in chat, and
3:52
we'll do our best to get those answered.
3:55
I have an amazing team that's gonna
feed those questions to me as we go.
3:58
But please also,
a lot of people share their LinkedIn.
4:01
I can see Thompson's doing that already.
4:04
It's a great chance to network
with each other as well.
4:07
So, Karina,
why don't you just quickly tell
4:11
folks a little bit about yourself
while I queue up the first question?
4:14
>> Sure thing.
4:19
Yeah, so as Ryan mentioned,
I'm currently working at NOVA Credit.
4:20
There, I started when the company
was about 25 people as their sole
4:26
first talent person ever.
4:31
Yeah, we build up the company to 60 now,
4:32
potentially hitting 80 to
100 by the end of the year.
4:35
I'm still sitting as
their sole recruiter and
4:39
super excited to be hiring across
the board and just continuing to learn.
4:42
>> Awesome, so first question,
how does hiring work within your company?
4:47
What roles does your
company mostly hire for?
4:52
>> Sure, yeah,
4:55
I'll start at the very top in terms of how
we even decide what roles to hire for.
4:56
And so, my company and
5:02
a lot of other companies will always try
to set what they call a hiring roadmap.
5:03
And this is usually always
really tied to the strategy and
5:08
the overall goals of the company.
5:12
And the reason I mentioned this is always,
if you like the company and
5:15
you go to their website and there's not a
role, you can always ping a recruiter and
5:19
say, hey,
what does the future roadmap look like,
5:23
in case there's a potential role
that might be of interest later?
5:26
But like I mentioned,
we started with this hiring roadmap.
5:30
And then we tend to do it on a quarterly
basis, so we'll evaluate it each quarter.
5:34
Once we set those goals and identify
those roles, do a lot of meetings with
5:39
hiring managers to really flesh out the
job description, and then they're posted.
5:45
For us currently, based on our goals,
we're focusing on a lot of
5:52
engineering kind of roles, and
then also on a lot of go-to-market roles,
5:57
a lot of your sales and
business operations.
6:02
What was the second part of the question?
6:06
>> What roles does your
company mostly hire for?
6:08
But you're answering that right now,
so cool.
6:11
All right, what traits do
hireable candidates tend to have?
6:14
>> I would split it into two.
6:20
I would say a few traits are very
general that everyone should have,
6:23
and once you have these,
you're a strong candidate.
6:28
And then, there's a few that
then go very company specific.
6:33
But I'd say the trait that is
probably universal across all
6:37
companies is really communication.
6:41
And I think people always just say
communication and it's very general, but
6:45
to break it down into a few pieces.
6:49
From your outreach,
if you're doing outreach to the recruiter,
6:51
right, ensuring that it's a concise note,
that there's no typos,
6:56
that you get directly to the point
in terms of what your ask is.
7:01
Let's say you passed that
kind of application stage and
7:06
are going into the first interview,
or even the technical challenge.
7:10
I had experienced where a lot of
folks who are doing technical or
7:15
coding challenges as part of their
interviews will just kind of sit there and
7:20
code away in silence, right,
and folks are trying to focus.
7:25
And that's definitely understandable.
7:29
But what I always hear from the engineers
who are interviewing is that they always
7:31
appreciate when you're sharing just your
thought process or asking questions.
7:36
>> So talk out loud as you're thinking.
7:41
>> Exactly, yes, I think that's always
helpful, because aside from just kind of
7:44
assessing your skills, a lot of people
also wanna assess how you're thinking
7:48
through a problem,
which is also incredibly important.
7:53
And then even post interviews,
7:56
always sending a really
strong thank you note or
7:59
a follow up email is always important.
8:04
>> To be kind of chit-chatty during
the interview, is that important or not?
8:08
>> I would say it definitely adds.
8:15
It never takes away from the interview.
8:18
It will always add to the interview,
to try to make that connection,
8:20
even if it's just small talk,
it will help.
8:24
>> Cool, okay,
what does it take to get an interview?
8:26
>> I would say, maybe it'll be helpful
if I can focus on the first interview.
8:35
I think the first interview is
sometimes the most difficult,
8:42
usually there's a lot more candidates
that you're going up against.
8:46
That's the largest poll.
8:50
I would say two things.
8:52
If there's a role that you've
already found, apply for it.
8:54
And then also ensure that you're
doing some research, right,
8:58
on the company, so
that once you apply for it and
9:03
your next step might be to do
a reach out to a recruiter.
9:06
You tell them exactly, hey, I'm excited
about this company for XYZ reason.
9:11
I've applied to this role,
here's my resume.
9:16
So I'm always a fan for someone who will
find the recruiter and flag them down and
9:19
let them know that they've applied for
something.
9:24
It gives you that added visual.
9:26
>> What if it's hard to tell if
the company has an in-house recruiter,
9:29
and who they are?
9:35
How do you figure that out,
if they're not on the About page?
9:36
>> Yeah, usually the way that I
find people is through LinkedIn.
9:39
So I would go to LinkedIn,
go to the company profile.
9:44
And then from the company profile, there's
actually a tab that's listed as People.
9:49
And so I will always click the People
section and just scroll through everyone.
9:55
And usually that's how
you'll find the recruiter.
9:58
Usually the recruiter, Is the person
that will be on LinkedIn the most.
10:01
>> Got it.
10:05
>> If you can, I would say also email
someone who's potentially in the current
10:06
role that you want.
10:10
So if that's another software engineer
ping them just to even express interest in
10:11
the company and just say, hey,
I would love to get coffee here but
10:16
your day to day.
10:20
That's always helpful as well.
10:22
>> That's a great idea.
10:24
Is it good to be direct with that person?
10:26
So say that you wanna work at ABC company,
10:29
you find one of their engineers
on LinkedIn and you ping them.
10:33
And say, Gosh,
I'd love to work at your company,
10:38
would you mind telling me a little
bit about what's going on inside,
10:41
are you hiring,
who's the right person to talk to?
10:44
Is that direct approach good or
is that too direct?
10:47
>> Yeah, no, I think that direct approach
is amazing, it gets straight to the point.
10:51
And usually folks will love to, I think
the other thing that I usually add is,
10:55
hey, I applied and I'm interested,
would love to chat and
11:00
get a sense of what your day
to day looks like, right?
11:03
And then everyone loves to
talk about themselves, so
11:07
it's always a great opportunity.
11:10
I think from that what always happens as
well is that once you have a conversation,
11:13
if it goes well, you can even ask them,
hey, is there a way for you to even
11:17
refer me or flag this for the person
who's actually seeing that location?
11:22
And folks are willing to share.
11:26
>> It seems in my experience hiring for
the last 15 years that there's
11:28
very few people that go that extra step
of networking their way into the company.
11:34
Just make another connection and saying,
hey, would you advocate for me or
11:41
would you introduce me the right person?
11:44
But what have you experienced out of
the normal percent of applications?
11:46
What percent seemed to be proactive and
11:52
seemed to be trying to reach other
folks in the company in a good way?
11:54
>> Yeah,
I don't have an exact percentage, but
11:59
what I will say is that folks who do that,
12:04
I probably hear about them more often.
12:08
So usually, what will happen after
that initial coffee chat is that
12:11
the person that you talked with will
usually reach out to me and say,
12:16
hey, I talked to someone, so,
here's their profile, right?
12:21
And so as the recruiter,
whoever screening the applicants,
12:26
there's like your name might
pop up a few more times.
12:29
>> Got it.
So it's just another way to raise your
12:33
rank on that list of hopefully
getting a call or getting noticed.
12:37
>> Correct.
12:43
>> Cool, okay, got it.
12:43
Okay.
12:45
So the next question is,
what advice do you have for
12:47
Treehouse grads who have completed
the coursework, know their stuff, and
12:50
are ready to apply to their first job?
12:54
>> I'm gonna start with a bit more of
like a touchy feely piece of advice.
12:58
Which is ensure that you're
taking care of yourself.
13:05
The job search is difficult for everyone.
13:09
I have yet to find someone who tells
me that they enjoyed the job search and
13:12
they loved interviewing.
13:18
At times it can be demoralizing,
it can be rewarding,
13:20
sometimes it's long and
potentially seems never ending.
13:24
So find a way to keep your energy up.
13:29
And I make a point to mention this
because not a few folks will talk about
13:32
how sometimes long or how many jobs it
took you to get that one job, right?
13:38
Everyone will always say, hey,
like, I finally got this job and
13:44
that's what they'll show.
13:48
So find a way to allow yourself to kind of
really keep your energy up because that
13:51
energy will then translate
into phone screens and
13:56
into other interviews that you're doing.
13:59
So that's one.
14:03
The second in terms of logistics
is really getting organized and
14:04
finding the system that works for
you to keep track of everything.
14:08
I know, when I did the job search,
I would have an Excel spreadsheet
14:12
that would be named the company,
the role that I had applied for,
14:17
what step I was in, and
then what else I needed to prepare.
14:22
Just because I have been
on calls with with both.
14:27
And you can easily tell when they're
trying to remember what company it
14:31
was that that they're interviewing for, or
14:35
just having difficulty coming
up with questions, right?
14:38
So if you have that level of organization,
it's a lot easier to really show
14:42
up as your best self during any
part of the interview process.
14:46
>> Smart.
14:50
So treat it as just a highly
organized projects.
14:51
Got it.
14:56
Okay.
14:56
>> Yeah.
14:57
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
14:58
I can imagine just knowing the date
you're supposed to take the next step,
14:59
send a follow up email, having a column on
the spreadsheet saying, next action date.
15:04
What is that action and
just remembering to do all that.
15:11
I've been a big Asana fan,
which is just a to-do list app, but
15:16
I'm sure there's a million out there.
15:19
And it seems like if folks just
created a simple list of to-do's and
15:21
follow up reminders to make sure that
they're treating it systematically,
15:26
that that would be great.
15:31
Okay, cool.
15:32
Next up, do you recommend looking for
remote jobs or
15:36
should folks look for jobs in their area?
15:39
>> I think it really depends
on what someone wants.
15:45
I'd say I think one for
context with the pandemic and everyone,
15:48
a lot of folks in the tech
sector working remotely,
15:53
a lot of the larger companies
have become remote first.
15:57
So there is a big push in that direction.
16:01
But I would definitely say,
figure out what will work best for you.
16:06
If you definitely feel that you want
a remote job, there are plenty.
16:10
So make that a filter in your job search,
right?
16:14
If you prefer to go in office, make sure
that you're finding something nearby.
16:18
Or if you're potentially looking to go
an office and also looking to relocate,
16:25
my biggest piece of advice would
be to write that in your resume or
16:29
write that somewhere in the application.
16:33
And the reason I say that
is because sometimes our
16:36
offices are based in San Francisco and
New York.
16:39
So we usually look for
candidates in San Francisco and New York.
16:42
And if I get a resume that says Texas,
most likely I will pass
16:45
you because there's no indication that
you're willing to move or looking to move.
16:50
And so that is one of our qualification.
16:58
So just always indicate that in
some part of the application.
17:02
Cool.
Got it.
17:06
I just saw that Greg shared a link
to a spreadsheet that is used for
17:07
tracking applications.
17:12
So thanks for doing that, Greg.
17:14
Do you have any resources like that Kerina
that you could share out at some point?
17:18
>> Yeah, I'm happy to share the one
that I use to help during my job search.
17:22
>> Okay, cool.
17:27
Great.
17:28
All right.
17:29
Let's keep going.
17:30
And I see questions coming in from
you all, thanks for doing that.
17:31
We will absolutely get to those.
17:34
Liz is compiling them for us,
in fact they're coming in.
17:37
So, I've got three or four more questions.
17:42
So we'll get through those and
then we'll start answering your questions.
17:47
Jack, I can see you just posted, Jen,
thanks everybody for doing that.
17:52
Okay, next question.
17:56
What advice do you have for
18:00
folks who are looking to gauge if
a company would be a good fit for them?
18:01
>> I'd say the first
thing is please do that.
18:07
I think that there's a lot of
people who just go by a name and
18:09
apply because it's a well known
company without really thinking of
18:13
what they want and what works for them.
18:18
So, at the beginning of your job search,
take your time to understand, hey,
18:21
I need work-life balance or
I need a hybrid working model where I can
18:26
work from home and
then work in the office.
18:30
Or I really value like
a very strong manager so
18:33
that's what I'm going to look for.
18:35
So always set some time to actually
set those values on your end and
18:38
kind of reflect and understand, obviously,
18:43
as your job search happens,
things might change.
18:46
Or you might learn, hey,
I really need a strong solid team.
18:50
So really first is take the time to
identify what it is you need, and
18:54
then jot down a few questions that
will allow you to really understand
18:58
whether the company that
you're interviewing has this.
19:03
And don't be afraid to ask.
19:07
As much of an interview as it is for you,
it's also you interviewing the company.
19:09
>> Got it.
19:15
Okay.
19:16
How is it a good idea to actually reach
out to people in the company that look
19:16
like you and
ask them what their experiences?
19:21
Or is that asking them to do extra
work that they shouldn't do,
19:24
I don't know, was that good or bad advice?
19:28
>> I would say similar to reaching out for
someone for coffee,
19:32
like if you find someone
that looks like you and
19:35
that's the person you feel most
comfortable reaching out to, go for it.
19:38
As that conversation happens,
feel free to ask.
19:42
I think it's something that if
that's the value to you and
19:45
you're curious about that you should ask.
19:49
>> Cool, got it.
19:52
We talked about this,
where can candidates find recruiters?
19:54
Which is you said on LinkedIn.
19:57
Yes.
19:59
>> Do you have a special version of
LinkedIn that you're using to do that?
20:00
Or is that just vanilla free LinkedIn
where you can go to a company and
20:05
see who works there?
20:09
>> It should be like the vanilla free.
20:10
I know that also sometimes I'm not sure
what plan might not have like in-mail or
20:13
being able to send additional messages.
20:18
So when you actually connect with someone,
you have the option to add a note.
20:21
So if you have the version that might not
support like longer emails or messages,
20:26
always send a note on
that first connection.
20:31
>> Got it.
20:33
For everybody out there,
you'd be shocked at how many
20:34
companies just use the simple
first name @companyurl.com or
20:39
first name.last name or
first name, last name.
20:44
I mean,
It's like 99% of companies [LAUGH].
20:47
You could always just cold email and
say hey, I just wanna say hi,
20:51
I would love to work at your company.
20:56
Any chance you connect
me to the right person?
20:59
So don't make those emails too long,
and don't be too pushy, though.
21:00
That's for tonight.
21:05
Okay [LAUGH] what's the etiquette for
21:06
following up with a recruiter after
an application has been sent?
21:10
>> This piece I've kinda mentioned before,
but really, feel free once you submit
21:19
the application, whether it's LinkedIn or
via email, just send a short note.
21:24
Hey, just wanted to give
a heads up that I've applied.
21:29
I'm excited about the company for
XYZ reason.
21:32
And that should be good.
21:35
>> Nice,
does it feel like good proactive or
21:37
creepy if people like something you
put on social or comment on social.
21:41
>> I would say that's proactive.
21:49
LinkedIn and Twitter, I think,
are the more like professional.
21:52
Well, Twitter's a mix, but LinkedIn
is definitely the most professional.
21:55
So I would say, yeah,
commenting and liking and
21:59
engaging with people's content is okay,
not creepy.
22:02
>> Okay, good.
22:06
Okay, last question I have, and
22:07
then I'm excited to get to you all
questions that are here with us.
22:09
Is there anything else you wanna
share with the audience before we
22:15
jump into Q & A?
22:20
>> Yeah, I would say the last
piece of advice that I'd give, and
22:21
it's a little maybe not controversial but
a little different, but
22:26
I've noticed in talking with a lot
of friends who are recruiters,
22:31
is that your energy in
the conversation really matters.
22:36
And I'm not saying, if you're not
a bubbly person, be a bubbly person,
22:40
not at all, but
rather being very engaging.
22:45
So for context, recruiters might have
6 to 10 to 15 calls a day, right?
22:47
And if you're caller number five, or,
eight, and you're just saying yes,
22:53
no, okay, and your questions
aren't necessarily specific,
23:00
the probability of you leaving
a lasting impression is very minimal.
23:05
And so
being engaged is always a huge plus.
23:10
>> Awesome, so, cheat,
cheat, then what are just
23:14
a couple questions you could ask
that would make you seem engaged?
23:18
>> Yeah, I would say two things.
23:23
One, and this was taught to me a while
ago, is if there's an article once you're
23:25
doing research on the company, and there's
a very specific article like new news,
23:30
like, say there was a new product
that they just rolled out.
23:34
Ask the very specific question about
the product like, hey, I saw X article,
23:38
I would love to hear like how
the team felt about the launch or,
23:44
>> That's good
23:48
>> There was one candidate who I still
23:49
remember him because it was
a very random question.
23:53
But he just sat there, he's like, hey,
last question out of the blue, but
23:59
just to get to know you as a recruiter
better, what's your favorite book, or
24:03
what's the last book you've read?
24:07
Yeah, and
that would really left a mark on me.
24:09
And he actually asked that once at each
person he interviewed during that process.
24:11
And every person would come back to me and
say, hey,
24:17
I really like this person [LAUGH].
24:20
>> Okay, well done.
24:22
Okay, thanks for sharing that, cool.
24:23
All right, we have a ton of
great questions that came in, so
24:25
we're gonna crank on those.
24:29
Everyone in the chat please keep asking.
24:31
We'll get through as many as we can.
24:34
I appreciate you all joining us today.
24:36
From Damon,
24:39
do you have any experience with
recruiting people from outside the US?
24:40
And could you give us any tips?
24:45
>> Hi Damon, unfortunately I do not.
24:48
Our company is still very much
focused on hiring within the US.
24:50
>> Okay,
24:55
how do you quickly tell if a company is
open to hiring internationally or not?
24:56
>> That's a great question.
25:04
Usually a lot of jobs will have
the locations that they're open for.
25:05
So they'll say like San Francisco,
New York, or remote.
25:10
So any company that says remote, I think,
25:13
would it be worth just
clarifying with them.
25:15
Some companies are remote within the US or
remote within North America.
25:18
So just shoot in a quick note
to the recruiter if there's
25:22
an email that you can chat
to just clarifying, like,
25:27
is this international or
is this specific to a certain region?
25:31
>> Cool, great.
25:36
From Stacey, when getting coffee with
someone in person is not doable,
25:37
what are some other alternative
ways of reaching out?
25:41
>> Yeah, well,
I think this whole past year,
25:45
in-person coffee has not been doable.
25:48
So even just asking for
a quick phone call.
25:51
I would say I've got in on phone calls
with folks as well who are just interested
25:55
in learning more.
25:59
Or even if they're open to doing a video
chat, that's always possible as well.
26:00
>> Great, from Jen, what would you like
to hear from an applicant who does not
26:07
have much professional experience in the
field but has self taught knowledge and
26:13
is transitioning into a career
in tech as a web developer?
26:19
How can people who are switching careers
introduce and present themselves?
26:24
How do you do all that?
26:28
>> Yeah, that's a really great question.
26:29
And it's one that I've thought
through a lot just because there
26:33
are a lot of folks who kind of want to
ensure that their skills can can show up.
26:38
My biggest piece of advice would be,
well, I guess there's two.
26:44
One, there's always a lot of programs and
26:48
within even large companies that
are specifically targeted towards this
26:51
kind of demographic that is looking for
that career change.
26:56
So, I think Pinterest has
an apprenticeship program.
27:00
I think Spotify,
large companies definitely have this.
27:05
And that's one option.
27:09
Second is always,
this is where the relationship piece and
27:11
building out relationships with people at
that company is gonna be really important.
27:14
And so if you've managed to talk with
a couple of engineers that are already
27:20
there, and maybe seek their advice on
a project you just got into, know them.
27:25
They're more lenient to kind
of welcoming you in and
27:30
trying to find ways to support you
through the interview process.
27:33
And then third,
this is one that I'm learning about.
27:38
But really even for that first role,
like very early stage
27:41
startups who potentially have like two or
three engineers in and
27:46
might need like additional
engineers are always very welcoming
27:51
to anybody who's willing to
like jump on their project.
27:57
Because it's still very much like
a dream that they're trying to push out.
28:01
>> Got it.
28:06
Okay, cool.
28:07
Thank you.
28:07
From Kalil, what are some of the important
28:08
aspects that should go
into a cover letter?
28:13
>> I think my overall thoughts
on cover letters are,
28:18
they should only come up if you're
doing that job transition and
28:22
you're trying to explain why
you're making the transition.
28:28
So I think for a lot of people who are
looking to get into tech, a cover letter
28:33
is really great for just kind of showing
maybe including a little bit about what
28:38
you did in the past, and how your interest
in tech happened, or what sparked it.
28:43
And then, where you're at now,
28:48
and what you're hoping this X
role will help you achieve.
28:50
The second piece I'll add as well is,
and there's a little bit of a trick,
28:54
but always loop your resume and
your cover letter into the same PDF.
28:59
So then, for someone who's doing
recruiting, they just have to scroll.
29:04
So if you make their job easier
by just allowing that scroll to
29:09
happen into the cover letter,
they're more likely to read the cover
29:13
letter than if they had
to click on another link.
29:17
>> Smart, that's a good hack.
29:20
I love it.
29:22
From Mary Lee, how have your tech
recruiting methods changed if at all,
29:23
in service to increasing
diversity on your team?
29:29
>> Yeah, I would say, there's two things.
29:33
When I first joined Nova Credit,
29:40
at one point they were doing
only a live coding challenge.
29:43
And then a few folks brought up the idea,
hey, this is not necessarily ideal for
29:48
everyone, like not everyone is
comfortable, is there a take-home option?
29:54
So then we ended up building
out a take-home option,
29:59
where someone could grab a project,
take it home, work on it and come back.
30:02
And then we got to another
point where we realized, hey,
30:07
the take home option is actually
taking a lot longer for
30:11
anyone who's very short on time,
this is not ideal.
30:15
So on our end we continue to iterate
on the interview process as we get
30:19
feedback and understanding what is
best suited for different folks.
30:24
>> Got it, great.
30:29
From Charles,
how important is a portfolio?
30:32
What do you like to see in a portfolio?
30:34
>> Specifically, I would say for
any engineering or
30:39
data roles,
I've never looked at a portfolio.
30:43
I think we always go directly to
the resume or to the LinkedIn.
30:48
I would say for the only role in
my experience that there's been
30:52
a lot more emphasis on the portfolio
has been for a product designer role.
30:57
>> Got it.
31:03
Okay, yeah and I think where that question
may be coming from is in past sessions,
31:04
some of the folks have been encouraging
new engineers to build things.
31:13
And then put a live working example
of that up on the internet.
31:20
Say it's a web app, etc.
31:26
Making sure that you can click
through it and see it and
31:30
that you can see your
GitHub portfolio as well.
31:33
Is that still important to you?
31:38
>> I would say for our specific company,
not necessarily as much.
31:42
But I think if other recruiters or
31:49
other folks have definitely to
advise that I would say again,
31:50
each company is very different in
how they approach the process.
31:54
Yeah, I would say have some work.
31:57
But it really depends on company in terms
of whether they place value on that or
32:02
whether they might not necessarily
have the time to look at it.
32:06
>> Got it.
32:09
I presume if you're a new dev and you
don't have any paid experience, you just
32:12
have self-taught experience, you're gonna
have to put projects up to your build.
32:16
Because you don't have any previous
experience on your resume, right?
32:21
Yep, okay, got it.
32:24
From Cliff, what advice would you give to
someone who has 50% qualification from,
32:29
I don't know how to finish this question.
32:34
Let's see.
What advice would you
32:36
give to someone who has 50%
qualification from the job description?
32:37
I don't know what that means,
sorry, Cliff.
32:40
Maybe Cliff ask your question again,
sorry about that.
32:42
From Lukesh, I've heard that when you do
get a tough question during an interview,
32:46
you can say that's a great question.
32:52
And take some extra time thinking of
an answer, what are your thoughts on that?
32:54
>> Yes, I love it.
32:58
It's always helpful to just,
if you're like, hey,
33:01
great question or tough question, you
could just kind of keep that energy and
33:04
say let me take a few
seconds to think about it.
33:08
That's completely okay.
33:11
>> Cool.
33:12
That backs up one of the best things
I've ever seen in an interview
33:13
was a woman I was interviewing said,
I don't know, let me Google that.
33:17
And I was like, Brad,
that's exactly what I wanted to see.
33:22
So, I think Cliff just
clarified their question.
33:27
So I was in a live coding interview with a
big company, but I was demoralized since I
33:31
felt a lot of tension from the recruiter,
which was being timed.
33:35
How do you recover from such a situation
to be proactive in an interview?
33:39
>> Is this in the sense or-
>> I guess how do you recover if you feel
33:46
the live coding is not going well?
33:51
>> Yeah, I would say, I've had this
experience with with candidates.
33:55
And when their coding isn't going well,
they just acknowledge it, right?
34:01
And say, hey, I'm really nervous,
34:06
this is the first session I've done in
a while, please bear with me, right?
34:09
Or is there any tips you can give me?
34:14
Again the person on the other
end is also human and
34:17
they probably remember they've had some
demoralizing interviews themselves.
34:20
So I think being very upfront is helpful.
34:26
I've also had both to post
interview once they know, hey,
34:29
I didn't do too well,
they'll email us out, right?
34:33
And this is sometimes where they'll
link to other projects and they'll say,
34:36
hey, I noticed it didn't
go as well as possible,
34:41
here's some of my previous
work that shows what I can do.
34:43
I would love another trial,
always worth asking.
34:47
>> Got it.
34:50
Yeah, cause I guess you may have found
that the company admires your grit and
34:51
your tenacity more.
34:56
As long as you can code,
they may admire your ability to deal with
34:58
that situation and it may,
actually help you if you call it out.
35:02
Cool.
Okay.
35:08
Thank you.
35:09
All right, from Pima, is there a link
to a place that has examples of
35:11
code challenges you're likely
to see in an interview?
35:16
>> I don't have any of that
to mind at the moment but
35:22
I will say if you're in that
space where you're like, okay,
35:26
how do I practice apply to everything
in anything that will get you
35:31
a coding challenge, or like a coding
kind of piece and run with it.
35:36
I also know there's a lot of
meetup groups that are around
35:41
cracking the technical interview.
35:46
And so that's a space as well maybe to get
into a community where there are a few
35:50
other folks who are looking to interview
as well and just working together.
35:55
I know sometimes as well on Glassdoor,
36:01
folks will pose the questions that
they were asked during interviews.
36:03
So that's also a nice place as you're
doing research on the companies,
36:09
a nice place to go as well and see maybe
what type of questions you can expect.
36:13
>> Got it.
36:17
Okay, cool.
36:17
Thank you.
36:18
From Dee, would appreciate any tips on
transitioning from self employment to
36:20
accompany role, freelance experiences
isn't always taken seriously on a resume.
36:24
Yeah, I'd say the hardest thing with
freelance experience is the way
36:31
that it's structured in the resume.
36:36
So I would say sometimes if it's just
listed as or how I've seen it listed
36:38
oftentimes, someone will just write
freelance and then label the projects.
36:44
So what I would do a bit of
a hack is instead of they're for
36:51
very specific companies, like write up
the company name, break it down and
36:54
then just add a few more bullet points.
36:59
I think that gives a bit more of a visual.
37:02
>> Cool, cuz it actually shows wow,
this person has actually worked for
37:04
a lot of companies.
37:07
>> Yeah okay.
>> There's just not a lot
37:08
of freelance projects.
37:10
>> Yes.
37:11
>> Cool, like that.
37:11
Okay, great.
37:12
From Nick, any advice for
older folks, 40 plus,
37:13
doing a career change to tech or
engineering?
37:17
>> I would say the advice would be similar
to folks who are outside of tech and
37:24
looking to jump into tech.
37:29
One thing about tech, or
even the Silicon Valley that's kind
37:31
of where I am at in my experience
is that it's a very small world.
37:37
And so
relationships are incredibly important.
37:42
And I will always continue to
drive that in the hiring process
37:45
like building relationships with but
both beyond just the recruiter and
37:49
other people at the company
will take you a long way.
37:53
>> Cool, great advice.
37:56
And I'll say as, I guess,
an old person, I'm 43,
37:58
I'd say you have valuable life
experience then call it out.
38:01
Tell people how much you've done,
what you know.
38:05
If you've raise kids.
38:08
And I now that I'm in my
40s actually look upon life
38:10
experience and maturity and
the ability to stay calm
38:15
in stressful situations and
it's very valuable.
38:20
And there's a, I don't know how to put it,
but almost like a healthy battle
38:25
weariness that comes with folks that
are older that they've seen a lot.
38:30
And they just get less flustered and
they're usually nice to work with.
38:35
So I think there's a lot if you're
in that bucket, just own it and
38:41
talk about it and explain why it's,
really, really valuable.
38:45
All right, next question from Anthony,
38:50
what advice,
now we just talked about that.
38:54
Great.
38:58
Anthony asked,
what advice would you give for
38:59
persons transitioning
from a current career?
39:02
We talked about that.
39:05
From Dan, could you share about
candidate qualification for
39:07
roles outside of engineering and dev?
39:10
What can you tell folks who
are interested in UX product,
39:14
those kind of roles, any specific tips?
39:17
>> I would say in terms of qualifications,
39:26
I guess,
like what qualities might be helpful,
39:30
one communication always
is the most important.
39:34
But it really depends, again, it's hard
to generalize because each role for
39:39
each company will be specific.
39:43
So there might be some companies where
the way that they understand what
39:45
product management is,
is very technical in nature, right?
39:50
And there's other companies where
like PM roles are not technical or,
39:54
do not ask technical, or
don't require the technical background.
39:59
So, I would say in terms of qualities,
40:04
it really depends on the specific role
that you're kind of looking into.
40:06
So, always understanding once you open
a role, going to the qualifications,
40:11
or even just reading the JD and
understanding what types of
40:16
projects are being asked to be
completed or what are the expectations.
40:19
And then also reading through
their own qualifications.
40:24
>> Got it, okay.
40:27
All right, from Anton and
Justine, do you recommend a CV or
40:28
a resume, lately,
I feel like no one reads them?
40:34
>> [LAUGH] I will say the concept
of why no one reads them and
40:39
like provide some lifting of
the curtains on the back end.
40:44
For most jobs, and
it depends on what you're applying to.
40:50
If you're applying to larger companies,
I remember when I was at Genentech,
40:53
it was a very well known biotech company.
40:58
When I was working there, I would
probably look at100 to 300 resumes a day.
41:00
>> Wow.
41:06
>> So, the volume is huge, right?
41:07
And it was really like,
when sometimes people say things like
41:11
a recruiter will spend two to five
seconds on your resume or a minute max.
41:16
Sometimes that's very, very, real.
41:23
And so, that's why sometimes
the cover letters are not
41:25
necessarily as necessary because
that's extra time, right?
41:30
So, unless you're trying
to explain a change,
41:35
I would say stay away from the cover
letter unless it's required.
41:39
Between resume, I found also
that if they're hard to read and
41:43
makes it a little bit more difficult.
41:47
And LinkedIn has been the new kind
of place where everything is a lot
41:49
easier to read.
41:54
So, it has become kind of
the first place that people go to.
41:55
So, I would say your LinkedIn and
42:00
your resume should always be updated and
very clean and readable.
42:03
>> Got it., that's great advice.
42:08
And y'all, if Karena's saying you're gonna
get five to 60 seconds on your resume,
42:10
I think that's why she's saying
network your way as well.
42:17
Because if you get in touch with
an engineer who then gets in touch with
42:21
the recruiter and says, hey,
I met this nice person,
42:26
I think you should look
at their resume again.
42:29
That's 10x more time that you're
getting all of a sudden in your brain
42:32
as the recruiter versus the five seconds.
42:36
So, it makes a lot of sense to network.
42:39
From Tim, what would you recommend for
someone coming out of bootcamp,
42:44
dev program.
42:49
Rather than a CS degree,
how do you really shine?
42:49
>> Yeah, I think this is similar to I
think the other question where you're
42:55
sometimes doing that career change.
42:59
And so the big piece is if you're
looking for a bigger company,
43:02
there are a lot of companies that will
have those apprenticeship programs, right,
43:05
that specifically look for
bootcamp, grads, right?
43:10
There's other smaller startups that
also are willing to meet the talent and
43:13
are willing to go everywhere, right, and
43:20
really do also value folks
who are coming from bootcamp.
43:24
So, I'd say those two are big.
43:30
And then the third, those companies that
are a little in between, that might say,
43:31
hey, we're only doing CS degrees.
43:36
That's where you go in through those
different ways and meet people and
43:39
charm people.
43:42
And it just makes it
a lot harder to say no.
43:43
>> Right, I love it.
43:46
So, we only have three minutes left.
43:47
So, and
I have at least ten more questions, so
43:50
we're not gonna get through all of them.
43:52
And I'm sorry you all, we're trying,
we're gonna do our best.
43:55
How about from Celeste,
how far does the willingness to learn, and
43:58
being a fast learner get you
when you're self taught?
44:02
>> Really far, actually.
44:10
On our end, I think our biggest piece is,
if you're willing to learn,
44:11
we're willing to teach you.
44:15
So, sometimes maybe the tech stack that
you're doing doesn't line up with what
44:18
we're doing, but if you're like, yes,
it doesn't matter, I'll learn it.
44:22
That's incredibly helpful.
44:27
I think persistence is one of those
qualities that any any company will value.
44:28
And so, if you maybe don't
have the experience right, but
44:34
you're like, I'm willing to learn and you
show examples of how you're continuing to
44:37
push yourself to learn,
that's incredibly helpful.
44:42
>> Got it.
44:45
That's great advice, thank you.
44:46
How about from Jacques, if they advertise
remote and your timezone differs, would it
44:49
be wise to say that you can adjust your
schedule to align with the company hours?.
44:54
>> Yes.
44:59
But make sure you're willing to adjust
your schedule because they most likely
45:01
will hold you up to that.
45:04
I would hate for
you to be working 4 AM shift.
45:05
>> Got it.
So if you say it, they'll do it.
45:07
Watch out for that, okay, great.
45:11
From Ahmed, is it possible for
someone who's making a career change into
45:15
software development to get
their first job remotely?
45:20
>> Yeah.
45:25
>> Yeah, great.
45:26
>> Yeah, I think so.
45:27
>> Okay cool,
its a easy answer, [LAUGH] yep.
45:28
From Hugh, any strategies to improve
networking for introverted people?
45:31
>> I will say, I'm an introvert myself.
45:39
[LAUGH]
>> Yay, Introverts, me too.
45:41
>> I'm a big fan of, yeah, I would say the
pandemic has definitely in a weird way,
45:43
it's been an introvert's friend.
45:49
So yeah,
if you feel that online is a lot better,
45:52
reach out on LinkedIn and
just take a quick phone call.
45:56
But again, be a lot more,
because I know sometimes the energy and
45:59
in reaching out takes a lot more.
46:04
So, be very, very strategic about
who you choose to reach out to.
46:06
>> Got it.
46:10
Okay, that's really smart.
46:11
From Damon, is it rare or common for
46:15
companies in the US to recognize
experience equivalent to a degree?
46:17
>> I would say it is
getting more common and
46:25
it is something that,
especially on the tech side.
46:28
Because on the tech side
you just come in and
46:33
you just have to prove yourself
during that one hour code.
46:35
So, they're kinda swaying
more to that direction.
46:38
>> Got it.
46:42
Okay, I see a couple questions
that just came in at the end.
46:43
From Brian, have tech salaries changed for
better or worse during COVID?
46:50
>> I don't think they've
changed much unless,
46:55
I know some companies as people are moving
around are adjusting for cost of living.
46:58
So, I think it's on an individual basis.
47:03
If you've moved to a rural area,
they might have cut your salary, but
47:05
it really depends on the company.
47:09
>> Got it.
47:12
I can feel a lot of trepidation in
the questions around a CS degree and
47:14
formal certifications.
47:20
And I just wanna encourage everybody
that I know a lot of CEOs, and
47:22
it's just not cool anymore
to require CS degrees.
47:26
It's just there's a huge move
away from that, in general.
47:32
There's definitely companies
that require it, but
47:35
it's really becoming a significantly
less barrier than it was before.
47:38
And a lot of companies understand
now that that's actually one
47:43
of the main problems we have with
diversifying the tech industry and
47:46
moving completely away from it.
47:49
So, just wanna encourage you all on that.
47:52
So, Karina, any last words you wanna say
to everybody before we head to networking?
47:56
>> No, it was great getting
to share some knowledge.
48:04
Feel free to connect with
me on LinkedIn as well, and
48:07
I'm happy to continue to answer questions
as they come up beyond this session.
48:10
>> Cool, thank you.
48:15
Well, thank you so much for your time.
48:16
It's valuable and I appreciate it, and
thank you for sharing your knowledge,
48:17
being so friendly, so thanks for that.
48:22
Everyone else,
we're gonna transition to networking.
48:25
So, like Karina said, this is important.
48:29
This is a great way to get to know folks.
48:31
So, the way it works in Hoppin,
which is this app, is really fun and easy.
48:33
And as an introvert, I mean that,
it's not as scary as you think.
48:38
The way it works is you just click
the networking button on the left,
48:43
you'll be paired with somebody randomly.
48:47
Which sounds a little scary, but it's not,
cuz it's only three minutes max.
48:49
You do a quick video chat.
48:54
And if you start to
realize there's a good,
48:55
valuable connection,
you just click share info.
48:59
And if they do that as well,
then you both exchange info.
49:03
I'd encourage you all if that sound
scary just to say, hey, tell me about
49:06
one of your favorite hobbies outside
of tech or tell me where you grew up.
49:11
Just ask a question like that, and
they'll talk and you'll be fine.
49:16
And please remember that everyone at
Treehouse is here to support you.
49:22
We really do want you to get into tech and
to break in.
49:29
So, please keep asking those
questions over email, over social.
49:34
Or if you're a Treehouse student,
in the community.
49:38
But have fun in networking, have a great
time, hope you meet some nice people.
49:42
And Karina, thanks for joining us.
49:46
And we'll see you all next time.
49:49
Take care.
49:51
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